Have critters' honor value been raised at all to account for everything taking longer to kill/influence? Or is it just going to be a longer grind for an honor tic each day?

Do they have a seperate honour value? I always assumed it just used the xp they're worth.

Seems to use their levels, not taking into account health, afflictions, leeching, etc.

It does use their levels, yes. IE if a kephera is lvl 50, and you kill one, that's +50 points. Neither the threshold nor the gain has been adjusted (and we're waiting to see how bashing falls, so to speak, after the changes settle before we make, if any, changes).

That's not how the math works. If a warrior's WSC can kill a mob but a mage's annihilating can kill the same mob, then the crit rate averages out. Merely 'getting more criticals' means absolutely nothing. A critical is nothing but a multiplier of the base damage. I will further note that the bard attack is not a 4s attack once you've master-attuned it, which is why its damage is lower than other caster classes (as per your numbers); I believe it's a 25% decrease in speed. Something like that. Even with my speed bonus I don't swing all that much faster than Talan hits-- assuming I hit-- so I do feel like I have to dispute your assertions throughout this thread. As far as things go, bards are pretty well off in attack speed, and we certainly don't need another Destruction clone which just swings things far too much the other direction.

However, things like mobs not shielding would actually be pretty darned helpful... for everyone. It would also level out the playing field a bit in terms of warriors/monks/bards who have a quick shield breaker, and other classes that do not. Especially Wiccans, where if the mob shields and then gets pacified... well, that's a nuisance. At this point I feel that this is where the real disparity is. They've gone through and balanced damage output via formulas behind the scene to a very fine degree, from the numbers I've pulled in the past, so it does come out.

Beyond that, in regards to the changes, I had the same impression as Ragniliff about Muud. The end of the beast just is not worth the time for the reward that one gets back from it. Domoth mobs weren't really changed, which was great (Life Defenders with more time for health leeching would have been a pain). I'd like to see other mobs with health leech that got buffed (kepheran nurses somewhat, garshades in particular) have their leeching %ages reduced. Possibly the Illithoid as well, though Asmodea said she did not see much of a difference there. Prior to the change life-leeching mobs were already quite annoying, and the ones that got buffed are even more so (and did not get a commensurate boost in reward for the extra difficulty-- when combining health leech with a longer life duration, it fires more often and increases the life of the mob by a significant degree above and beyond the extra health addition).

Those were my concerns with bashing. In terms of positives, I loved that the offerings did increase to a noticeable degree for things like the tunnel trash, that are also now worth more experience. That gives that whole area rather more appeal, and the same with other areas that go on the standard health -> experience buff. It only seems like it's on the very very extreme upper ends (end of Muud, astral linking) that the ratio doesn't really feel worth it. At least part of it might be due to the insanity accrued in these locations and the fact that spending more time there to make the same "progress" is counterproductive.

As far as influencing goes, for those of you theory-crafting about it, I suggest actually giving it a try. The people mostly running around on Test are unable to really lower ourselves down below our base stats, but at 14cha I was able to do pretty much anything I wanted to in regards to influencing mobs. That said, I do not do amnesties, I usually ask Talan to help me out with those, so that whole thing is a bit different. If you're actually having issues influencing as an Orclach (for example), it would be a great idea to go out, pull out logs of the attempts, and get them addressed. That's what this period is for (to my understanding); "Live" testing. I did have some concerns about just buffing mob ego, and Estarra did try to consider that in the approach she took, so it's not like she's completely unaware that there might be some unexpected results. She just needs those results, not theorycrafting, at this point.

Blank note is not worth casting on a mob except maybe in a group, if you don't have a warrior or monk. They still shield again before I get eq back.

It would depend on when you do it... if they shield, you recover EQ a couple seconds later and blanknote, and then they tick their attack phase again while you're off then you'd have been better off waiting. The same thing happens to me with razing though... ramming into a shield that came up right as I swing, or razing and then re-razing, is a nuisance as well.

It also depends on the attack speed of the mob, if you're fighting something with a faster than average attack rate that mucks things up too.

Edit: Though you are right in that it's easier for a warrior who can "halve" their attack, with one half being the raze and the other being half-damage attack. It's a bit more productive than nothing. It would be nice if mobs just didn't shield at all and this whole thing was not an issue, though!

73 parasites, 7 cestodes, 33 symbiotes, 8 nematodes, 24 necrotrophs, 15 trematodes -- 76 minutes. Xenthos is going through now so we shall see.


It's a faster equilibrium for me than a hit against their shield, 2 seconds as opposed to 3, so I use it. My comment to Estarra was that it seems as though the percentage of health left at which they start shielding has remained the same, and since things now have more health, it takes longer to finish them off while they are shielding, which is super annoying. They could just lower that percentage a bit maybe.

Or you could just wait until they attack you, it's usually faster.

Another possible solution: make it so beast attack razes. Anyone can get a beast and train it in attack.

Yes, please. Beast raze would be a wonderful thing, even if made to just apply to denizens and not combat.

When I said that in ideas, someone suggested attaching that to Aggressive, and it seems like a decent idea.

Sorry, didn't recall seeing it suggested before, so I'll amend my suggestion to a for yours.

My run through Muud was 83 minutes, with the same damage bonuses as Talan.

I'm speculating that I got a few more boil-spawns which slowed me down.

It's difficult to tell as my corpses were all decaying (the run takes too long!).

I just tried to influence Maeve for amnesty as a faeling, with a throne blessing, high % set on curing with sparkleberry/scroll/etc. and got defeated. I never had an issue before.

That's frustrating, I planned to time a run later. That's double my solo run time previously.. it should be doable without hitting corpse decay. I hope the xp boost makes it still worth the time.

So far what I have seen.....

1) Influence got insanely easy on some (kephera I will outregen, guards too), while others are insane (like cthoglogg and even merian in throne who hit someone for over 2K ego).

2) Bashing is better, definitely, though its hardish with groups of mobs, but least I get more hits in so less mo dropping.

My best example:

Kephera gold was increased. Which is nice since they are in groups and their health went up. But this did not translate into a major alteration for influence. I can influence in 5 hits, while focused influencers can do it in 4 (up from 3). Influence does not have risk from them being in groups and as such seem like they should have more ego. I have not seen other mobs to compare to. But generally kephera are faster to influence than kill, with alot less risk involved for almost the same reward (more if you factor in you can make a needle per 15 minutes).

79 minutes through Muud utilizing a battle beast.

73 parasites, 9 cestodes, 33 symbiotes, 4 nematodes, 22 necrotrophs, 15 trematodes.

No globules?

Do you like to solo globules? I don't!

To me they are more of a group activity.*

* Where the group involves one partner, generally.