I don't see it being feasible to camp a plane with 6 hours with insanity ticking up. Ascension was 3-4 hours, and people were going -mad- at the end of it. Wildnodes are an hour and a half and they are hard enough.

But 6 hours on that insanity? I'm really doubting it'll happen... hence I'd say re-enable raiding.

I gotta say lets not add more potions or devalue other ones.

That said....

Use:
HARMONIZE NEXUS
You allow the vitae in your body to harmonize with the Megalith of Doom, rooting your soul to the prime material plane.

On death:
You have been slain by griefer.
You feel the Megalith of Doom resonating with your soul before pulling you to its safe embrace.
Centre of the Necropolis.

Attacking someone:
You lash out at randombie.
Avechna's gaze falls on you and the link to your nexus severs, leaving your soul exposed to the mercy of the Basin.

This is an example for a "backfire". Backfire would fire for instance on killing someone under circle... 60? Or someone who has not attacked another player for X hours. The cooldown is shorter on someone who attacks on their own territory (I understand the wish to reduce loss for defending your territory but let us not constantly reduce losses or we end up with more problems than we solve.

You have slain innocent.
Energies from the Megalith of Doom sheer your soul, weakening your mind and exhausting your body.

This could be mana/health damage maybe stops orgbixes or something for X period.

It has everything to do with it, because you don't want to come up with an anti-griefing tool no one will use. Imagine if Estarra's tethering idea had included the caveat that, if you get debated out after being tethered, you'd take double death experience loss. And once you're tethered you can't get untethered other than by dying. Suppose then everyone said, "Well, I would never tether, because if I tether on Monday, I can't possibly predict whether I'm going to be fighting on Wednesday or debating on Thursday." That would definitely have something to do with the tethering idea's viability. Well, if you tie your proposal to vitae, and vitae remains a very high likelihood of a double-death penalty, and the very people you're trying to help thus don't use it, then you aren't actually helping with griefing at all.

I struggled for a way to say this so I hope this one came out clear, and more persuasive than argumentative. (I'm not likely to end up using it either way -- griefing isn't really my problem with Lusternia at the moment -- I'm just trying to help make sure the idea will work because I hate to see you guys spend time on something that won't get used.)

From what I've heard, the main problem with enemy territory penalties is that is doesn't differentiate between org territory and NPC territory. Getting killed while bashing the UV has such a harsh penalty that some people feel they're being griefed when it happens. There really should be a differentiation there. There's a big difference, or should be, between getting killed while raiding, and getting killed while bashing. The heavy experience/essence loss makes sense in org territory, not so much in NPC territory.

Then there wouldn't be much risk/discouragement towards someone just sitting and camp-killing quest mobs and the like, either, to harass people who are questing (for any number of reasons).

To speak to vitae, it has only once actually saved me from a player death. I'll put it up during aetherhunts or on aetherbubbles, and if it's still up when PK happens, it just makes me die twice. I wouldn't mind the option for it to sling you back to your nexus, or to give a brief grace. I can see problems with both ideas, though. Maybe a config option to pick one or the other? Or it only flings if it's not an enemy territory death? I think a few changes to vitae could be a good way to come up with a simple solution.

A) I really hate your signature, every time I click to quote it also opens up what it links to! Grrrrr!

Ascension insanity is also ramped up and runs far faster than cosmic planes. I'm not sure on a astral vs territory defense, though. Even then, such defenses tend to fall flat when some organizations are able to drastically reduce the amount of insanity they hold.

So what? If every possible thing to do to negatively affect others is made to be ludicrously difficult and risky, you're going to have a single player game + chat room.

Also, does the obscene additional xp loss do anything to stop people from killing the mobs? From what I've seen, its no trouble at all to pop into an area, kill a specific mob, and leave with no one the wiser until they happen to notice its gone.

There can still be a penalty, just not as much.

500k essence would still be a disincentive, and a reason not to go poking when you're low on essence, without giving a harsher punishment to everyone who has more than 20 million (it's still very strange that having more essence means you have a higher punishment and have to spend up to 4x more work recovering than someone who has lower).

Isn't death in enemy territory a flat 2m essence, regardless of your total essence count? Or is there something else you are referring to?

Nope, it's not. 500k minimum, 2 million maximum. 5% of your total essence is lost, with the floor / ceiling at those two numbers.

Just remove the 5%, make it 500k flat. Treat everyone equally.

Or make it a flat 2 million... >:) (Muahahaha!)

Those people with low essence will be very unhappy with that solution.

I wouldn't mind that, since with phoenix it ends up costing me 2.3!

Really? I feel like I've been losing more than 500k (and I'm pretty sure more than a million) a death while raiding, and I've never had more than 8 mil essence.

Edit: Oh, phoenix is on top of that? Ick

Griefing has to happen together as a team. Most PKer's tire out after they get their fill of raiding. Which means less jumping. This, however, assumes that people are crying about being jumped as being griefed. I remember when they used to cry about raiding griefing them too.

P.S. while you said this was to solely focus on addressing griefing and not changing skills, you sure picked a convenient time to change choke (like right after 20 pages of choke is too OP). It makes you wonder why people moan and groan about all of those off topic complaints that you told them not to do in the first place.



Before you get too smug, shades, let's remember that your example of 6 hour raid camping was before anyone got free discretionary powers, were unwilling to use shrine powers, gained insanity, nerfed demigods (lower stats, regeneration lowered, and having less powers in general because of demi weight. Previously, Demigods had every combat related power available today inherently), removed divinefire solidly buffed two defensive shrine powers, and nerfed one offensive shrine power (beseech estarra for protection because it was passive dodge).

You literally cannot camp elemental planes with the flux power alone. It simply moves you to a random room every time it procs and there's no resisting it. Nowaday, for cosmic and ethereal, the willingness to use shrine and nexus powers is high and that alone makes people leave a raid.

You lose 50,000 for the death. Any death. Every time.

If you are in enemy territory, you lose the additional enemy territory penalty (500,000-2,000,000).

At this point you have either vitaed, or are a soul.

Phoenix costs an additional 150,000-350,000 on top of that, and if you vitae / die again you lose another set the first two essence losses.

This means an enemy territory death is able to cost 4,450,000 essence. Another 2,050,000 on top of that if you liched too...

Good to know, thanks! What determines the exact cost of phoenix?

well I was gonna make this huge long post about this stuff but I'd just like to say that most of the problems that were discussed in this thread can be solved by taking in-game action. Yeah it might be nice if Celestia would get raided every once in awhile so we could defend, but truth be told, it's not raided because as soon as someone shows up, ALL optional discretionaries are popped up, which is a huge raid deterrent. We could always not raise them and accept the raid (and I'm sure there could be some reason for it in-character as well).

The admin don't want to play the yo-yo game where they give the player base some slack on opposing planes, only to see players (yet again), not able to show restraint and park their es on celestia/nil/wherever for hours, because all that would happen is the admin would end up having to put the steep penalties back. Sorry dudes but this is the way Lusternia is now. Get to bashing or get out.

Also: If you're being griefed by someone of the opposite org to the point of complete frustration, there are actions you can take in-game: talk to the person ICly; talk to the person OOCly (ask them, calmly and nicely, to back off, because they are making the game less fun for you); learn how to fight and survive, and like a million other things you can do that don't involve emailing Estarra and getting the whole Basin whacked up. If you honestly feel harassed by someone then guess what, IRE has this thing called the ISSUE SYSTEM you can use. HELP ISSUES in game.

And just one more thing: the admin are griefing everyone because looking at the credits for sale prices are ing insane. And I mean ing y completely insane. We should not be paying 8k for 1 credit. Not everyone has the ability to buy mass amounts of credits with rl money to trans every skill and buy artifacts - and not everyone is a Demigod who can bash/influence high level areas. Please do something about the insane prices. We shouldn't be telling people "get 800k and you can MAYBE buy 100 credits which won't even trans one skill! Rinse and repeat about 5000 times!" Especially for the guardian class (well, Nihis/Celestines), where to start bashing effectively you have to find a way to get enough credits to get your Symbol - you cannot do that with just lessons you earn from leveling and the achievements (believe me, I tried). I had to fall back on the Facebook 10-bound-credits-a-day thing to make it, and that was only because someone led me through the motions, but that well soon dried up. There are lots of people who rely on the in-game credit system - especially new players! I'm embarrassed to tell new players about the credits for sale because I know they will look at that, look at the 7000 gold in their inventory they just spent 3 hours earning, and be like, "yeah. See you never."

There's plenty of gold sinks in Lusternia. Manses, aetherships, clans, cartels, cartel-specific designs, comms for trades, gear for combat, beasts, and... I don't know, a ton of other stuff too. Credits don't need to be added to that list as well.