36 total for all four planes, Air and Fire just have three types of creatures compared to Water and Earths two. Though I might be wrong, too much being moved around and no proper way to track it to double check.

I've gotten 37 and 38 essence from Air and Fire.

Also, yes, scanning for reverted totems is a pain. You don't even only do it every 12 days - you do it as often as possible, because while a totem takes 12 days to reset, they don't reset all at the same time. Yes, bonded totems don't reset - but 1 druid = 1 totem, and we all know how plentiful druids are. And if just so happens that someone decides to go on an elder-chopping tour, it's 5 RL days to grow back that lost elder, and each day that tree is vulnerable to further chopping, which will pretty much reset the 5 RL day timer. So, yes, the hammering down is necessary.

This thread has a kind of comforting nostalgia to it, like listening to one of Yes's more pretentious and less compelling, but still familiar, albums. Tormato, maybe.

Forestal players get so passionate about this subject.

I don't think anyone is screaming to nerf passive power from totems. So please, calm down. I think city players would simply like to gain more passive power. If they decided to add a few steps, I wouldn't mind. It doesn't even have to be linked to statues, which are only of use in urban areas. We have non-urban areas in the cities. We also lose statues during off-peak times as well. So wot. Lerad is spot on- checking your totems isn't as much a pain as Xenthos is making it out to be. It gives busy bodies something to do. I did it in Serenwilde.


And I kneeeeeeeew someone was going to bring up elemental planes. Active power!= passive. Secondly, anyone can clear out those planes. I sometimes spot more Gloms clearing out Water than Celestians. Enemies may have more trouble but they still do it.

Powerlog summary says you are wrong.

The Shadow Totems added 2061 power.

Hmph!

Losing a statue at an off-peak period is far easier to replace than losing a totem, that's so what. If you don't constantly check them and you lose the things... well, that's incentive to constantly check, which is just a frustrating mechanic. Especially once you've already gotten all the CFs that you're going to get for it.

Finally; at times you may see more Gloms on Water than Celestians, but over the course of time? Celest always has access to it, will never be enemied to the Plane, and it's one of the city's hunting grounds. While you can make a case for active vs. passive, I don't see any way to legitimately say that having a place with respawning essence readily available and attached to your organization is not a boon in its own way, of a quite significant level.

(Of course we get passionate about it, totem maintenance is a pain!)

You only have reverting totems because you opt to have them but it has nothing to do with the defensive nature of totems and statues. If you want to argue the advantage of upkeeping unbound totems for passive power gain VS having essence filled planes for power generation that is something else entirely and not related to Morbo's suggestion.

And yes the limited factor is a good argument to not change statue upkeep. Though you lied when you said only druids can have bonded totems, bounding is linked to Crow and Hart not druidry.

Uh so what are you saying, you don't want cities to gain more passive power due to elemental planes? Sounds like what you're saying. You gain 3000 power a month- tree-totems included.

Forestals also have access to statues in their villages, if prime raids are suddenly a concern.

No one can keep people from harvesting their planes. Your argument about elemental planes is rather irrelevant. Since we're talking about passive power. Cities get the 1000 power from their nexus each day. Forests get more, with totems. We want more! I'm not saying that your precious power source needs nerfing.

All of this is off topic so I apologize to Morbo. Ixion started it. :>

Um, we have reverting totems because there are not enough druids to bond all totems. Trust me, if we could, the entire totem population would be bonded and unrevertable. As far as I know, we get passive power from all totems, whether bonded or unbonded.

And yes, bonding is in Crow, sorry for that. And we have a grand total of one constant Crow Ebonguard, because Night is just so much better. Even ask Serenwilde this; I bet you most of their Serenguards have Moon.

And even if we had two guilds all scrambling to choose Crow to bond, even then we wouldn't be able to cover the 200 or so rooms with toms. I don't even think the entirety of Lusternia's population can.

Why do you insist on this?

You're wrong! Grump.

The Shadow Totems added 2061 power.
The Ravenwood Saplings added 1 power.

^-- That's it, no other trees in the log at all yesterday.

I am against improving statues unless 1) Totem maintenance is made nowhere near as much of a chore / obligation, or 2) Statue maintenance is put on the same level (ps: I'd prefer the first, it's supposed to be a game, and making it a job for everyone instead of just a couple of organizations isn't really ideal either).

The current power disparity between trees (passive) and cities (active with their planes) is precisely for that reason. That's just the way it is. If you want to balance that end of things make the shadow things and critters in EthSeren respawn on their own and we can look at adding / reducing power gains passively as well. I don't really care either way as long as we get a ready supply of essence within our own borders to make up for it.

Edit: Or are you counting the standard shield thing as well that everyone has? To me, that's still just a difference of 2k, so calling it 3k is confusing / misleading.

I'm not being misleading. I said tree-totem. You just missed it. To be clear, you get 1000 power passive from your nexus source. You get 2 or 3k from your totems passively.

I've helped with totem checks, upkeep. Not as much of a pain as you make it out to be. Either way, if they want to make statues generate more power and include more work, I wouldn't mind. I've now said that three times now.

2.

Just 2.

It's in the logs. You also get the 1000 from your nexus source, so the difference is 2 (not 3)!

You can say it a few more times, but I do not feel that is where the entire disparity lies. If you want to make statues generate power passively, you need to give Communes their own supply of essence to actively gather within their own borders. Then beyond that you also need to look at either maintenance of statues or maintenance of totems, and bring them closer in line to one another.

The last time you helped was a very long time ago, and I can't help but feel that it's distanced you from the experience. Doing so regularly for days / weeks on end is not a fun experience. It's a chore.

Active power is not the same as passive power. I know you like to be redundant. I can do the same. If they brought it in line, that's fine. I'd like more passive power. Now you want an elemental plane of your own, if statues were like totems. Then they'd have to bring forestal defenses in line with cities; forests have superior advantages when it comes to org defense and protection of any active power. Enemies and allies alike clear out elemental planes all the time, with great ease.

I don't buy that it's as much of a chore as you claim. I'm just stubborn like that and your argument fails in a few areas. I've also seen logs of totems generating as much as 3000 power.

Seren gets 3k per day, as they have more forest rooms. Glomdoring gets 2k per day.

Thanks for clearing that up some. I guess Glomdoring just needs more trees.

Not true at all. Cities currently have the strongest advantage of all when it comes to organization defense.

It is called 'distort' and it blocks all forms of escape except an aethership or standing still for 2 minutes doing nothing (in which deathsong, judge, chasm, decapitate, or even raw damage will make you have to break it or die).

In Communes, you can just go through the archway, no ship needed. Further, all statues can fire and work whereas only a bonded totem does, so cities have an edge in that case. Even beyond that, cities have far fewer entrances (especially in Serenwilde's case).

Enemies and allies clear it, sure. It is not the same as it being your own territory, with your own access, as your own novice hunting ground. The attached organization has the clear advantage when it comes to gathering from that plane.

I don't buy your assertion that it is not as much of a chore as I make it out to be, especially as I am someone who has to deal with it and you are not. If it feels like that much of a chore to me, then how can you tell me that it doesn't feel that way?

I can also guarantee you that your logs of 3k power did not come from Glomdoring. Edit: Curse you Esano-ninja.

Essentially: If you want to 1) Make essence mobs respawn on their own for the Communes, and 2) Balance statue / totem maintenance, I am fine with 3) Also balancing passive power gain. If you want to go beyond that... well, even this is never going to happen I'm sure (even though it would be nice), so asking for more is pretty pointless.

I disagree with your assertion that cities have superior advantages when it comes to defense. One, you have a single plane to defend outside of Prime. You can cover your avatars and aspects with a single shrine, druid-meld and liveforest, which is still better than ripple. Cities can't meld there. You also have access to distort and pathtwist can make it quite difficult to rush over to the archway or dock. Considering I have a lot of experience raiding Eth-wilde, I can assure you that it can be a very unpleasant place to invade. Do so with caution.

Secondly, the Pool absorbs fire/earth/air essence quite nicely after proper conversion. There seems to be no discrimination or disparity in power gains if we harvest non-org essence. Forests can do the same too.

You never made the distinction between SW or Glom's power gains from totems. I never said Glom only. I said forests and I included your nexus surge in the total.

Edit: Better detection skills too. I forgot crow eyes and such. There's a reason Mag would rather raid Water or Celestia over Ethereal Glomdoring.

Having spent a considerable amount of time in both a commune and cities:

There are two distinct parts to the totem issue- the upkeep of existing elders, and the replacement of destroyed elders.

The difficulty of upkeeping totems is being dramatically overplayed. Especially now with the alterations to powerplex jewels, only with the most insane waves of totem reversion should an org need to tap in to any power resource outside of one of these artifacts. That is, over 20 trees in one weave, which while not entirely unheard of, is extremely rare.

Finding them is also a near non issue and requires only the most sparse amount of dilligence. Trackers can track them. I did this frequently in Serenwilde. There are some minor issues that can arise with tracking bugs- for example, if an uncarved elder is in an inaccessable area, the bond won't be able to reach it, and won't move on to the next one. However, when there are NO elders, the bond will also relay this immediately and forego the effort.

Even if a tracker is not available, the basic power quest for each commune requires trapsing all about it. Just a little bit of training of novices regarding what to look for can catch the vast majority of trees.

So yes, the upkeeping of carving elders is incredibly simple. I would never hold that up as justification for the power gained.

Replacing destroyed Elders is more of a headache.

Basically, you do the power quest to its full (or near full) extent, enough to generate a nut. You plant the nut in an empty room. Repeat this five times. (Since it doesn't take EVERY pixie/crow in the commune to generate a nut however, this should not take five hours unless people are being lazy.) Once 5 trees are in the room, you do what you can to protect them, and but generally nothing else is to be done until they mature.

They mature, mulch two, wait.

They mature again, mulch two, leaving 1, and wait.

It goes elder, carve it. Done.

The vulnerability here is in the waiting stages, in which the person who cut the tree can remember where it was, and come back and chop down the growing trees. Even this only happened rarely when I was in Serenwilde, even when Mag or Glom was sending the idiot brigade in to a sparsely defended org at every opportunity.

Whether or not this latter part justifies the power gain discrepency, considering also the easier link to the elemental planes, well that's a matter of opinion more than anything else. But generally, in terms of the upkeep and replacement of elders, it isn't difficult or costly. It is generally a rare event when an elder is lost to begin with. Even more rare when the replacement time is hindered. While it is annoying, even facepalm inducing and frustrating when it DOES happen, I find this aspect of the debate to be strongly overplayed.

A much better argument to me is the comparison with the elemental planes. Having experienced both for extended periods of time on my main, having easy access to such planes is welcome. That said, they can and are hunted by communes as well, especially allies, who, except in the odd case, aren't going to be maliciously killed there. Hunting the ethereal critters that drop essence is much more likely to generate gripes, if nothing else, from the commune in question, due to their non-self replenishing nature, so it usually doesn't happen in the reverse direction. To me, an active method of generating power, like the elemental planes, especially given the above regarding others able to use the plane as well (albiet at greater risk), should meaningfully outstrip passive methods- and not just in the "if you get all the spawns, every time" unrealistic scenario. It should do so on average, accounting for the average rate of being hunted, and it being hunted out by "non-native" orgs, in an ideal world.

And yes, commune planar defenses make them fortresses compared to their counter parts. Something easily appreciable when comparing a few Serens able to hold off the choke-katamari of Glom when they have no real business doing so, to walking in to Fillin holding Celestia against Celest with a Geo meld.

I don't think a few from Serenwilde have been able to hold off the choke-katamari of Glomdoring, actually. Hence their constant need to call for Magnagora's help.

Oh! My bad then. A good point to Alacardael- it seems we should nerf choke.