That...doesn't even make sense. But yes, Aysidra is correct. As per HELP CUSTOMISATION:

You can do pretty much whatever you want in customising an item, as long as you
don't try to change the basic type of thing which it is. A ring can't become a
shield, for example, and a musical instrument can't become a cloak.

This implies that, for all intents and purposes, the noun will have to stay the same.

short appearance: A melody of an Elven Massacre
dropped: same with something else
examined: violin and parts

ii violin: none
ii viola: A melody of an Elven Massacre.

The base noun cannot be changed so that the instrument can be a... shield, as the help file shows.

But the yoyo, well, what did you want to change it into? If it's within limits, I think it could work. For example, and sorry for being gruesome, if you want to make the yoyo into a head that drops down and picks items up with outreached teeth, it would work. But you cannot ih head. but you will still have to ih the original noun, yoyo. Or to give it to other people, give yoyo and not give head.

Made an alt in Hallifax, got treated nicely by one person, got treated rudely by two people, suicided. All within an hour. (I know you may not believe me, but yes, there were more than two people in Hallifax CWHO!)

Near:

Made an alt in Hallifax, got treated nicely by one person, got treated rudely by two people, suicided. All within an hour. (I know you may not believe me, but yes, there were more than two people in Hallifax CWHO!)

Who treated you rudely? I'll send in the re-education officers.

Rudely? That is surprising, I very rarely get that any where. Maybe treated coolly, but not rudely. Strange! Maybe they had a bad day. :unsure:

Logged in, saw they'd made Hallifax religious to make getting villages easier. Logged out.

Have I mentioned that I hate the metagame?

Ileein:

Logged in, saw they'd made Hallifax religious to make getting villages easier. Logged out.

Have I mentioned that I hate the metagame?

Since when is doing what's best for the future of the Collective metagaming?

While the overly "holy" feel of the religious government style is a bit offputting, I've always preferred to look at religious more as "idealistic". The Collective strives to enforce its ideals. Its ideals are Order, Harmony. Which happen to be tenets of Zvoltz. Who is a Divine. Hmm.

That's bull and you know it. I mean, honestly, just look at it. It's a Holy Grand Duchy. I know you're going to say just ignore it, but that's bull, too. It's not just a name or a show, it's the "governing style of the city." And it was changed to make villages easier to get, supposedly. That's what we call the metagame.

Yeah, the scrolls specifically say that IC this has only a little to do with how things run. Lookinag the the religious structure help thingy, it makes ABSOLUTE sense for Hallifax when you consider what the implications of the Hallifax 'religion' are. You're being overly simplistic here.

EDIT: And even if it didn't, you seriously can't see the board getting together and going: "Hmm, we know these pitiful villagers like this silly thing called 'religion'. Let's do an experiment: We'll feed them some religious BS and see if it makes them like us better. All for the Collective! (or whatever your big saying is)." ? That seems like something they'd totally do IC, It's manipulative and calculated!

I disagree. I will simply say, however, since this is the forums and nobody is going to convince anyone else, that I think it was a stupid decision motivated not by roleplay but by a desire to win, and it discourages me. I hope it works out for you.

I dunno. Seems like a very narrow view of the RP, and that you're quitting because the org RP is no longer fitted in the somewhat narrow conception of what it means to be Hallifax. Hallifax is supposed to be kinda evil , and supposed to do whatever it takes to get ahead/win.

EDIT: Also, go take it up with them in character, if you really think it has no RP base accuse them of being insane/like gaudi or something.

Anyways, enough of that.

Ileein:

That's bull and you know it. I mean, honestly, just look at it. It's a Holy Grand Duchy. I know you're going to say just ignore it, but that's bull, too. It's not just a name or a show, it's the "governing style of the city." And it was changed to make villages easier to get, supposedly. That's what we call the metagame.

The motion to change was brought up because it makes little sense to be a Conquest government when you have no villages, yes. What do you suggest we do instead, Ileein? Return to being stubbornly Neutral Commercial and struggle with that for little to no benefit like we did for ages before, because no one could get over the word "religious" and its connotations? Stay Conquest and get nothing for it? It was damn hard enough to end the stupidly long run of being unable to switch to Benign simply because the word "free" rubbed people the wrong way.

It says in the scroll it has no IC bearing on the city. The holy religion overtones of Religious are offputting sure but calling it bull that we would decide to make a logical choice that benefits Hallifax is really one of the things I'm glad isn't a pervasive attitude on the Board anymore.

If I could change the words that get slapped on the org due to choosing Religious I would, because they seriously don't fit on the majority of the orgs in the game, but I can't. What I can do, however, is understand that governing styles are meant to be chosen to work to your benefit. They are meant to be used in this way. Is it metagaming to make the choices they explicitly state want you to make? I don't believe so.

I try not to get into these longwinded sorts of things on the forums, but "this is metagaming" is an argument that's difficult to address ICly, and you're kind of directly insulting my dedication to my character's roleplay, so here we are.

Ileein:

Logged in, saw they'd made Hallifax religious to make getting villages easier. Logged out.

Have I mentioned that I hate the metagame?

This reads a bit like you think going religious is 'ruining Hallifax' somehow. Will anything change about the city's roleplay? No. Will we still have a Chairman/Board of Directors? Yes. Will art and science still be the city's most valued traits? Yes. Will we still have a caste system? Yes.

I try see 'religious' and the change of titles it brings as purely an aesthetic moniker, to be forgotten about since it will change little about the city itself. If you want to give an rp justification to it, you could argue Elostian's sacrifice and Zvoltz and Isune joining the city's pantheon have made the citizenry more aware and accepting of religion. I'm certain you can think of another method of presenting the decision yourself.

The game is by its nature a competitive one, and the 'metagame' is what it is in this situation. Would I prefer we were a commercial government? Of course. Is commercial a viable means of securing a village under the mechanical limitations of the system that is in place? No. We are just trying to make Hallifax as competitive as we can.

You're a great roleplayer, and still an influential figure despite being somewhat absent for the past while. I'd hate to think you've decided to go even more inactive over this.

EDIT: Wow, I'm a slow typer. None of that interchange was there when I started. :(

I'm going to speak from the other side of the fence here.

Glomdoring was Religious, and went to Conquest.

I personally felt much the same way that Ileein does on the whole subject; Glomdoring is essentially molded around a weird pseudo-religion / cultish feel. That is the essence of Glomdoring, to me. It makes sense for the organization to see itself in that manner.

For the sake of benefits, it was decided to switch to another type (we've gone back and forth a few times by now).

And, really, Phoebus is right; you can always come up with an IC explanation for why you're doing what you do. Glomdoring is supposed to be taking things over, so conquest makes sense, right? It just doesn't fit as well in my mind.

In the end, though, don't let what is actually an almost meaningless RP tool affect how you enjoy the game. I think the last time it was ever actually used as one was shortly after it went in and Xenthos was deriding Serenwilde's leaders for being heavily oppressive of their villages. It was fun, for a few days.

Maybe the governance types just need to be renamed with more neutral sounding words. If it were called an oratory style of influence, or sway by rhetoric, either of these would probably be more appealing (and be more accurate descriptors, really). "Religious" is a very provocative word so I sort of understand the objections, even while I think the people who allow themselves to react negatively (or positively for that matter) are being silly. It's quite a misnomer considering what it actually entails. I'm not sure how you can be offended by the religiosity of using regular old influence skills in villages. There's not even a special technique.

A lot of things that we don't like could just be renamed to solve a lot of the problems. I am still looking forward to the game embracing the ShadowHug skill in Night.

Talan:

Maybe the governance types just need to be renamed with more neutral sounding words. If it were called an oratory style of influence, or sway by rhetoric, either of these would probably be more appealing (and be more accurate descriptors, really). "Religious" is a very provocative word so I sort of understand the objections, even while I think the people who allow themselves to react negatively (or positively for that matter) are being silly. It's quite a misnomer considering what it actually entails. I'm not sure how you can be offended by the religiosity of using regular old influence skills in villages. There's not even a special technique.

A lot of things that we don't like could just be renamed to solve a lot of the problems. I am still looking forward to the game embracing the ShadowHug skill in Night.

This has been my feeling for some time, as despite the help clearly stating it's not supposed to have an RP effect, the rather powerful implications made by the terms used are hard to swallow for some people, as you can see. I believe Arte once asked about changing Religious to something more neutral while he was CL and was told it wasn't going to happen, but he was never very good at asking for things in a way that would make people want to give them to him.

Phoebus:

This has been my feeling for some time, as despite the help clearly stating it's not supposed to have an RP effect, the rather powerful implications made by the terms used are hard to swallow for some people, as you can see. I believe Arte once asked about changing Religious to something more neutral while he was CL and was told it wasn't going to happen, but he was never very good at asking for things in a way that would make people want to give them to him.

Our Patron at the time, and thus the majority of leadership in Hallifax, was very opposed to it. Personally, I'd like for the terms to change, yes. However, I also feel that Hallifax can do a religious thing well, even if differently than is traditional. Think 1984 with their worship of Big Brother and the Party. The Higher Castes don't have to necessarily involve themselves in it either. The religion is just propoganda for the lower castes, while the Higher Castes enjoy all the benefits (and such was supposedly the purpose of the Manifesto, and the higher and lower emotions concept).

Hallifax supports and is supported by a pantheon. This doesn't alone classify Hallifax as potentially religious in the traditional sense, but it does show that Hallifax isn't categorically opposed to all things divine.

Secondly, spirituality, prayer, etc. in Lusternia has a real, immediate, and physical impact on the world. Consequently, and less so than is often the case out in the real world, there need not be such a gulf between science and religion. Hallifax creates some end by using structured, measured, observed, concise recordings and experimentation in order to create the result they want. Celest, to take the most traditionally brazen example, might use structured, ritualized, practiced, historically concise and exacting prayer, rituals, and acts of faith, and achieve the same end using those tools.

Therefore, Hallifax adopting a religious form of government simply represents a renewed and introspective appreciation of the philosophies they believe in, adhere to, and flourish by. It also represents a desire to expand these concepts to the rest of the basin, over more material concerns, such as amassing material wealth, or seizing territory.

Thus, it need not generate any worry that Hallifax is engaging a form of government anithetical to its very essence. Rather, it has adopted a form of government that promotes its own culture and ideals over corperal gains.

It cant be as bad as Serenwilde and its leaders wanting to switch to the Conquest style. I can see Hallifax and its religion of Order and logical things, but I dont really see the snuggly Free Forest as big bad conquistadors.

To be honest. I still think high quality debaters/fighters for revolts are way more effective than changing governance style.

Anyone who has actually read the histories knows that there is nothing snuggly about Serenwilde, outside of some of it's players.

Honestly, in terms of RP Serenwilde shouldn't even care about villages, but since they are necessary, it isn't hard to imaging the savage hordes emerging from the forest to extract necessary goods from the terrified populace.