I only just now ran into Glomdoring's ghodak board.

We requested it so long ago I forgot we'd even done it, and I don't remember ever being told it was added or seeing it, since I assumed it would go in the underground around the other game type things.

How long has this been in without me knowing?!

Seren's is right next to the slots machine, which weirds me out... It should totally be over by the chessboard instead.

RE: Fair fights.

Fair fights generally seem to only happen for one side. They tend to be when that side feels they "fought", and that the fight went pretty much according to how they wanted it to go in the end.

The odd fight where both sides agree it was mostly "fair and well fought", regardless of the outcome is far more likely to be the result of coincidence than any kind of restraint.

In a similar vein, if you're an engaged and active combatant, and you show up in the same area as a glob of people from the other side, of course they are going to chase you about. Otherwise, they're just surrendering the initiative to you for whatever "hijinks" you may or may not get up to.

RE: Alliances.

Most conversations I had, when Halli split off, were fairly cynical of the whole thing. In the end, as has been said, people prefer to play with their friends. The Admin could pry-bar an alliance apart with a severe enough conflictive event, but that ends up leaving many people unhappy. Additionally, in the long run, the game will settle back in to some form of alliance structure again.

It boils down to the very basic attribute of self interest. For example, Ackleberry is really on its game this year. It has several strong combatants, and has shown a consistently good performance. In contrast, Jojobo isn't doing so well. It has fewer combatants, and Sundancers are generally seen as being on the wrong end of the envoy-war train. In the rare case all its fighters are about, it can do "decently", so it isn't hopeless, but generally, it isn't winning either.

Ackleberry can serve its own interests by working against alliances. If they can isolate their weaker opponent, who poses little threat to them by itself, they can hammer away at it. They don't even need the opposing alliance to break apart- they just need it to not interfere.

Jojobo needs the mutual support of an alliance. It isn't a good situation for them to be caught one-on-one against Ackleberry at this time. It isn't so much that they have to "hide behind their allies", which would be a pretty narrow and shallow view of things, but rather, the mutual support gained by an alliance, even if being in one exposes them to an opposing alliance, is more beneficial than being locked in a dance with one org that is plainly stronger.

In fact, I would argue that overall, alliances have compelling benefits to the game as a whole. It allows talent and combatants to be a little more evenly placed on either side of a conflict, or at least creates a situation where this is more likely to be the case. Without the effectively "infinite" populations that some big MMOs enjoy, this sort of thing can be a factor.

gtfo with your logical analysis! :P

Seriously, though. Great post. Pragmatism ftw.

Yup. Pragmatism. If only more people knew what that meant.

Of course Ackleberry is on top. Lakedancers are really OP, trust us.

I bet they all win because of their Waterdance Drown too.

Sojiro:

While it would cool cool cool to have everyone fight everyone else, it's not a realistic goal because all it takes is one org to decide, "hey, this would be easier if we teamed up with org y again" and it will all collapse back into alliances once more.

Fully accept that there is a certain prisoner's dilemma aspect to breaking alliances. I disagree that it can't be a realistic goal however, if others can agree that having only a -single- axis of conflict is detrimental to the -total- enjoyment of the game. Turnus' post summed it up, 'Equinox can stay together, we just don't want to play with you guys.' Likely being flippant, but I still think there would be a lot more dynamism (especially in domoth conflict) and enjoyment in the game if a separate and independent axis were introduced.

Does this have to be Halli v Gaudi, Celest v Mag, Seren v Glom? No, and judging by current happenings, a Halli v Celest seems to be building momentum despite the olive branch having been extended. This would be a pretty even match I think, and for me it would be nice to be able to have this conflict without having Glom/Gaudi showing up if it does happen that we end up going toe-to-toe. This could leave Seren vs Gaudi/Glom, while also allowing a Mag vs Celest that would be separate from Halli interference. Change one of the players, and whole new arrangements appear.

There could also be things like the possibility of one org taking a soldier of fortune role, fighting with you during one domoth/raid defence, against you the next (perfect fit for Gaudiguch?).

Sojiro:
Plus we like our friends.

As much as I...laud, I guess, the current Hallifax leadership for stepping up and breaking things up yet again, even they will eventually be replaced, and their next leaders may feel that the current situation may not be that kosher after all.

Sure it's fun to fight with friends, however it is also fun to fight -against- friends. For me, speculating on what might happen just means nothing will change. As I see it, there's opportunity now for a real dynamic change in the game. I'm still hoping others will take it.

Skeleton Hearth proved that friend v friend only lasts for ~13 domoth fights. This isn't wholly speculation; we've tried this before. (see: Glom vs The World). Things eventually fell back into a two-side war.

Guess I really have jumped in during Season 8 without watching reruns of the earlier ones! :D

Oh well, I'm a dreamer!

Edit: Poor idea for having some means for orgs to offer tribute to the 'orgs of fortune' will never see the light of day, sob sob!

I remember some Glom vs. the World (the second time, I think. This was when Glom was winning v. the world). What really stopped that case of it was Halli and Gaudi opening up and needing to ally to one side or another while they got their feet.

Ex-IronHart orgs are using psychology Equinox at this point. If they beat us - so what? They're three, we're one, lol. Like we were supposed to win? Equinox can't feel good about a victory they haven't really earned. They can't take pride in achieving something they were expected to complete easily. Once you're six or so, there's no high-five for successfully tying your shoes.

By contrast, if Equinox loses, it's double-bad! Not only did they lose at all but they lost to one measly org. Tut-tut.

So basically Equinox goes into a situation where they are unable to get any good feelings out of interactions with any of their enemies -- unless of course they are willing to admit that they in fact ARE the piece of crap griefers who enjoy the teabagging, curbstomping, poor sportsmanship mindset they are accused of having.

Basically... check?

What happens moving forward is going to be interesting I think. Or not. No one actually likes conflict when there's a real risk of losing position. Maybe it'll just be quiet for a while. I think that would be fine.

Actually, I get plenty of satisfaction evening up the numbers, not so much zergy zerging, as you've said. So, you're right that Equinox can't derive much (if any) satisfaction from curbstomping with a zerg, but otherwise, I think some small amount of pride can be had for evening up fights.

If 10 big bad hallifax pro pilots/fighters decided to attack poor Glomdoring's bored domothing crew of 4 (it's only 4 because they domothed during lame offhours, as an example), I don't see the harm in asking for at least 6 others to come help, no matter where they come from.

I think an even fight (numbers wise anyway) is more interesting than any sort of 1v1 pride in a team in a game that's all about team combat.

Though I have to admit that individualistic pride in and of itself isn't bad (EFF YEAH AMERICA). I just disagree that it's impossible to get good feelings fighting against a single org.

Plently of people seem to derive satisfaction from grinding an oppnent in to the ground. Heck, among a sea of other examples, Glom provided proof-positive of that at its zenith. The number of orgs actually involved is mostly a visual trick compared to actual fighters involved.

Forum propaganda is all well and good, but saying a side of any given conflict can't take pride in any given outcome is a matter of subjective opinion.

If a hodge-podge of 6 people from Jojobo, Gaudiguch, Celest and Glomdoring beat a team of 10 from Ackleberry, then it is a 'hard fought victory over a dominant org by the little guys" or "hey, we got hit with every org at once, we did pretty well considering" for the other.

If the mixed group shows up with 20 fighters and trounces 5 Ackles, they're still going to pat themselves on the back and say "Good job. We shut down the bad guys."

If a large mixed group loses to Ackle, then Ackle's a dominant org. There's no shame to losing to a dominant org, and the mixed group can take pride in having a good turn out against a "super power".


Every org should take pains to dictate its own narrative.

And remember:



Propaganda is quite a bit different than reality, OOC or IC. :)

What peace does Serenwilde aim for when they've been jumping people in Faethorn?

The kind that lets them have/eat cake.

Vadi:

What peace does Serenwilde aim for when they've been jumping people in Faethorn?

I will never understand you people.

Or defending Raezon's godrealm! :)

I'm surprised they got the weapons pretty correct in that propaganda poster.

I think we're all forgetting that the main point of employing Mag math (Magematics or Magthematics, whichever one's punnier) when it comes to counting fighters, dictating what orgs/alliances should and should not feel good about, and/or being aggressively pro-org is that they sure keep these forums lively.

So we should all probably take things with a grain of salt.

But while we're at it, Akui made a great post that accurately conveys my own personal feelings.

Edit: the term "Ur'math" has also been offered as another alternative to mag counting.