My only thought right now is something like, "omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg nooooooooo."

I'll come up with something a bit more not that when I'm not just waking up.

Also, Victarion and Barristan are some of my new favourite characters. Badassery ftw.

Since I finished a couple days ago and have had the time to mull over a few things here are some preliminary thoughts:

Also I don't have the book in front of me to directly reference/double check my facts so keep that in mind.

Dear George R.R. Martin. If you are going to cocktease us with 900+ pages of armies positioning and posturing, give us at least ONE major f***king battle scene. Seriously. Suggesting that Stannis's army was smashed off camera is bs of the highest order (I have my doubts on that actually, more on that below).

Jon -- Best character arc of the entire book, second to Tyrion. Even though it was all politics and management Jon's sections were a joy to read and somehow never felt boring. I've also grown fond of Dolorous Edd's cynical comic relief and Mormot's crow (CORNCORNCORN).

Lets get to brass tacks. Is Jon dead? I don't think so. I think Martin is going to pull a Asha Greyjoy with Jon recovering from his wounds next chapter. There are a couple reasons why. First Melisandre's vision only stated he had enemies and was going to be attacked I don't recall it specifically said he was going to die. Also Jon is outside in the snow when he gets stabbed. He's not going to bleed out in that environment and he'll be physically stable much longer because his body is in cold conditions. Chances are some of his allies will show up because Wun Wun was attacked and is making a ruckus.

The letter -- Since I don't have it in front of me I can't do a line by line analysis. Anyway I think that Stannis is not dead and the letter was sent by one of the Boltons. If they captured Manse (and at the end of Theon's chapter it appears they get wise to who the singer is and interrogate him) then the Boltons would know that Stannis has a magic sword and several of the details included in the letter. Also the syntax of the letter feels like Ramsay Bolton to me. As if he's lost a toy (fake-Arya) and is very angry.


Here's where I poke holes in my own theory. The letter was only signed 'Bastard' and not sealed with the Bolton's seal. So it very likely could come from someone else who is trying to press Jon's buttons into taking action. Theories on other boards suggest that maybe it was Manse who wrote the letter to get Jon to send troops to break him out of Bolton's captivity (if he is actually captured).

Also there is one niggling detail that bothers me about the shenanigans happening at the Stark Castle. Who removed the rusted swords from the Stark Crypt? Was that ever resolved?


Victarion -- Victarion "Toss them overboard" Greyjoy. What's not to love?

Tyrion -- In this book we learn that Tyrion can pretty much talk anyone into anything. Hey Targaryen, why don't you go west instead of east. Buy that morose looking hairy guy for 300 silver, he's part of our act. You should hire me as part of your mercenary company, no really.

Arya -- Great section, not enough of Arya in this book imo.

The Spider/Illyrio Mopatis -- I don't think we've been told the full story with these two. Given Illyrio's discussion of the Spider's 'history' to Tyrion, it still doesn't make sense to me that some foreigner hired by a Targaryen to be his master of Whispers would be THIS LOYAL to the wellbeing of Westeros. It just doesn't add up. I wonder if the Spider and Illyrio are two of the few characters who really understand that The Others are coming and they need to be stopped, for the good of all. Consider that Illyrio gave the dragon eggs to Dany and I think dragonfire will be instrumental in stopping hordes of Others coming down from the wall. Also consider that the Spider was instrumental in suggesting Edd Stark be given the black and head up to the Wall. I think they both know who the real enemy is. Also since magic is back with a force in this book, the Spider's silent children assassins seemed to me more than a little unusual. Like the Spider has supernatural backing or powers or something.



Missed that completely. Nice find.

Also there is a HP Lovecraft reference on page 601 I think. One of the cults in the East is the 'Starry Wisdom' cult. The Church of Starry Wisdom was mentioned in HP Lovecraft's "The Haunter of the Dark" as worshipers of good o'ld Nyarlathotep.

More later.

Pretty sure Bran and Friends took some of the swords when they were hiding down there from the sacking of Winterfell, and brought them with them when they fled.

Regarding Theon, I think he is still needed for the Greyjoy house plot. Asha will use Theon (or his absence anyway) to invalidate the first Kingsmoot and keep her hopes to be the 'mother-kraken' alive.

I'm still reading, but I'll add this:

After Melisandre's conversation with Jon regarding what she saw, and her insistence that Stannis is the Prince of Light...

...I began to wonder. It's generally believed (or, at least, in people I talk to) that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. If I do recall, Rhaegar was also the Prince of Dragonstone.

On this logic, should Jon die and be reborn through Melisandre's magic, giving truth to her prophesy:

"When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. Dragon-stone is the place of smoke and salt.”

Any number of arguments could be based on this. One could so argue the 'dragons out of stone' reference could be both of his bloodline, and where he was conceived - they say the northmen (such as the Starks, Lyanna's family) are as cold as stone and snow, so for a bastard Stark to become the Dragon he was born as, he would be a dragon awoken from stone, so to speak. Smoke relates to fires, which is the magic of Melisandre and her red god. The salt is a bit awkward, and any interpretation I have feels shallow and likely off. I'm sure we'll see it come to proper fruition in time.

It's definitely not Stannis, Azor Ahai reborn, nor Daenarys. Perhaps her cousin, but of all the characters, I think it is most likely Jon who will come to realize the prophesy.

I didn't quite love A Feast for Crows, because it lacked my favourite characters. A Dance with Dragons had them, but they were so few and far between. I still want more of Bran and Arya, although I managed to at least read a happy number of Jon chapters.

I also wanted to add - anyone else notice that Connington, Rhaegar's best friend, has the same first name as Jon, and give the same thought that Jon Connington may be Jon Snow's namesake? Hmm!

I'd always assumed he was named by Ned for Jon Arryn.... Connington's relationship to Rhaegar seemed to be one of stolid friendship but also unrequited love on Connington's side. Seems like Rhaegar naming his son (if indeed he is, etc.) for such a man would be a bit awkward.

I had a dark thought about Bran's section.

Jojen and Meera Reed and Hodor are the only humans with Bran. Its pretty clear that once Bran & co get to the abode of the Old Gods, the Others put them under siege with increasing numbers of undead.

The issue is that Jojen is sick, getting weaker every day, and there doesn't appear to be any medical attention for him in the abode or from the children of the forest.

We know Jojen has the green dreams. Before Bran's transformation into a 'greenseer' he is given a bowl with something like acorn paste mixed with what he first assumes is blood, which he eats. Bran then gets a broadband connection with all space and time. There are no updates in the story after that point (as far as I can remember) about Jojen, Meera or Hodor.

What are the chances that Jojen was killed and his blood used to make the greenseer paste for Bran?

Pretty sure Jojen was still alive/mentioned before that, and talks to Bran afterwards. I'd have to go back and take a look at those chapters to be sure, though, since I could be thinking of something else in the caves.

Yeah, Meera and bran!Hodor take him down to fish in the abyss. Kind of sweet, actually, except that one of them is dying and another is being parasitically controlled by a guy sitting on a weirwood throne.

Also, the sap of weirdwoods is the colour of blood - the paste was made from weirwood seeds, iirc.

While we learned a lot about the Children of the Forest in DwD, I must say, I was pretty disappointed with Bran's section, in terms of development and understand. Like "Coldhands" - a continuing secret that irks me for it has not yet been properly resolved (is it his uncle? I understand he's a wight - but why is he not controlled by the Others, and instead 'free'?).

I was pretty sad to see Quentin's storyline end as it did - I was really hopeful for him, that he'd actually take and tame a dragon, but alas. No such luck.

I very much agree with this. Bran is one of my fav. chars and where his story goes has been one of the big things I've been really anticipating basically since his dream in AGoT leading to the point that he wakes up. It's cool that Bran turns out to be the next Greenseer, but nothing is really happening.



Quentyn annoyed me. Not sure why. I did laugh quite heartily at his ultimate chapter's title after it was over, though. Oh, GRRM.

Quentyn only had one purpose, and that was to die in the east. I don't, however, think he needed his own PoV chapters to make that happen.

I think GRRM said that tPtwP and AA were the same person - the AA prophesy is about to be realized (the bleeding stars from Patrek's cloak, the gathering darkness could well be the Others converging on the Wall, Jon's smoking wounds, the salty tears from Bowen Marsh), and if AA is tPtwP, then from Danaerys' vision in the House of Undying, it might be a son of Rhaegar...the fishwife tale is likely a red herring.

Tyrion's (or Jaime/Cersei's, or all three) parentage could be interesting though - you have both Roose and Barristan making comments about the lord's right to a man's wife. It might explain how he doesn't get greyscale, while Jon C. has it advance rather rapidly.

Since we see Jon's "death" from his PoV, he isn't dead. GRRM has stated that real deaths always occur from a different PoV (Eddard, Quentyn). There's also been way too many 'fakeout' deaths for this to be taken seriously in aFfC and aDwD (Brienne, Tyrion, Asha, Davos...)

I was never interested in the Ironborn before this book...but Theon/Reek probably has the best written chapters in the books, and stuff actually seems to happen. Manderlly became a favourite for his Frey 'pork' pies, and I've always liked Bran...I'll be at least a little sad if his fate is to become a tree. Dany's chapters are pretty boring and repetitive, as is Jon's.

Overall...aDwD felt like half a book. If the fat was trimmed from aFfC and aDwD, it would easily BE one book...an immensely boring book that took a whopping eleven years to write. Not much in plot advancement, it's just a lot of talking and travelling and more talking in both books. The chapter division of the books is kind of awkward...It's hard to feel for any of the characters when they have so few chapters because of useless PoVs (Jaime, Cersei, Arya could have been cut from aDwD and be more fleshed out in tWoW. Their chapters could have been given to Bran. Quentyn could have easily died in Mereen without chapters needing to be allocated to him.) Well, at least winter has finally come.

Here's hoping tWoW is more like the first three books, and not the last two, of the series.

I don't know where he said this, but there's at least one exception to it. During the Red Wedding, Catelyn did die, and it was told from her PoV. Sure, Dondarrion did give her the kiss of life something like five days later, but she was dead.

I really wish Brienne had got her chapter in Dance, though. Her entire everything in Feast was boring and pointless up until the very end, where they're captured by Lady Stoneheart, and then there's nothing more for a full book but confirmation that, yes, she is alive. But it was already pretty obvious that would be the case, and we're stuck wondering what and why.

You see Catelyn's corpse through Arya's PoV (Nymeria wolf dream), Catelyn's end of her chapter from the Red Wedding isn't much different than the fakeout deaths in aFfC and aDwD. Meaning she could have well been alive (somehow) if Arya's PoV didn't confirm she was definitely dead.

It was confirmed by someone else that she was dead, and it's why Dondarrion had to give her whatever the last kiss/ritual is called. Besides, her corpse was bloated and decaying when Nymeria found her - she was most definitely dead.

This really irked me too, both about Bran's section being underdeveloped, and the part about Coldhands. My hunch is that its his uncle, but controlled by the current greenseer, which is why Coldhands was leading Bran to the greenseer, but I want more material on this topic.


Me too, I was hoping for a scene where Daenerys, Quentyn and Victarion have all managed to tame/take and ride a dragon, and we'd have a three-way dragon battle. My dream died when Quentyn burned to a crisp.

The letter from Ramsay couldn't have come been sent by one of the black brothers because it references both Theon's identity as Reek and the fact that Mance is still alive, and I can't see how they could know about either of those things. However, am I remembering wrong or doesn't Ramsay hate the word "bastard" and flay anyone who uses it in his presence? If it's really him, why does he make a point of using it over and over in the letter? I think the Mance theory has some validity to it.

No love for Davos from anyone? I was disappointed that his chapters stopped halfway through the book

Also, could someone clear something up for me? Maybe I'm just dense but how exactly did Arya kill the insurance guy with a coin?

PS. Quentyn was so pointless, why was he even in the book

Remember how Arya made a note that the insurance guy liked biting the coins to make sure they were authentic, given his job? What Arya did was put a poisoned coin into the merchant's pouch so when the insurance guy went to check the coins, he'd bite into the poisoned one and die.