Ytran2011-07-22 21:02:02
QUOTE (Phoebus @ Jul 22 2011, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not me, miss. I'm an Aeromancer. I do the windy thing. Time? Pssh. Only self-important losers use time. (not you, Sentinels. We <3 you. Those guys over there. With their fancy stoles.)
Hmph.
Silvanus2011-07-22 21:03:00
I'm not going to comment on Hallifax or Gaudiguch or anything like that, since I do not know what goes on there.
But I have been a part of so many Nil raids and Celestia raids, before plane effects, before shrine effects, during shrine effects, during plane effects, having to break demesnes, having to defend Demon Lords or killing Supernals, its pretty simple.
Celestia > Nil, in every possible way.
The Demon Lords probably killed just as many Magnagorans as enemies.
If we are raiding the Supernals, Celest can sit outside the Supernal room and staff us. If they are raiding (they always go to Baalphegar's room), we have to open a book to get ot the room, and can't sit outside the room and staff, like them. Same thing with Nifilhema.
To break Celestia's demesne, you have to go from all four corners. Note, that this could be an advantage for Magnagora if they have a demesne up before anyone notices, but to go into Celestia with an active demesne already there is suicide. There are multiple break points from Nil, Nil is a square, very easy to break. Celestia is a cross, very hard to break.
Raziela sends people to Astral and breaks up the group. Gorgulu kills all Magnagorans.
But I have been a part of so many Nil raids and Celestia raids, before plane effects, before shrine effects, during shrine effects, during plane effects, having to break demesnes, having to defend Demon Lords or killing Supernals, its pretty simple.
Celestia > Nil, in every possible way.
The Demon Lords probably killed just as many Magnagorans as enemies.
If we are raiding the Supernals, Celest can sit outside the Supernal room and staff us. If they are raiding (they always go to Baalphegar's room), we have to open a book to get ot the room, and can't sit outside the room and staff, like them. Same thing with Nifilhema.
To break Celestia's demesne, you have to go from all four corners. Note, that this could be an advantage for Magnagora if they have a demesne up before anyone notices, but to go into Celestia with an active demesne already there is suicide. There are multiple break points from Nil, Nil is a square, very easy to break. Celestia is a cross, very hard to break.
Raziela sends people to Astral and breaks up the group. Gorgulu kills all Magnagorans.
Malicia2011-07-22 21:04:49
QUOTE (Ushaara @ Jul 22 2011, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As said earlier, think there's tendency to over-react in immediate aftermath. How many times have the Spheres actually fallen? I only know about three times. While I joke about it on La'Saet family channel, and think about how it would be nice to be on assaulting side once in a while, we're hardly being griefed.
If I remember right, Researchers don't lose gem abilities with their deaths either (?), so at the end of the day, only lasting thing left to get "upset" about is how much of the excess of two million power in the Matrix is lost. The people scouring the planes will get bored, spheres will be restored, and things will go back to normal. Don't worry, be happy!
Also, at this point, we're told bugs (Generator ones included hopefully) should be worked out. Nothing should change until we've had a chance to see another raid.
If I remember right, Researchers don't lose gem abilities with their deaths either (?), so at the end of the day, only lasting thing left to get "upset" about is how much of the excess of two million power in the Matrix is lost. The people scouring the planes will get bored, spheres will be restored, and things will go back to normal. Don't worry, be happy!
Also, at this point, we're told bugs (Generator ones included hopefully) should be worked out. Nothing should change until we've had a chance to see another raid.
*like*
Neos2011-07-22 21:10:19
QUOTE
You pause a moment to observe the surrounding area.
To your NORTHEAST you see:
The Strands of Twisted Truth.
Covered in webs, the Black Tome of Vile Secrets sits upon a pedestal constructed of
finger bones. Holy light emanates from the ground here, filling the air with the
Glory of Celestia. A malevolent demon prowls here. A stunning fiend stands here,
playing with her hair. A black-skinned imp squats here, long tail twitching. Silvanus
d'Murani is here, shrouded. He wields a twisted staff in his left hand and a massive
astral shield in his right. He is surrounded by one reflection of himself. Solanis
Talnara is here, fluid-like motes of effervescent light floating about his form. He
wields an athame dagger in his left hand and a golden sunburst shield in his right.
You see exits leading south and west.
To your SOUTHEAST you see:
The Strands of Sinister Deceit.
Holy light emanates from the ground here, filling the air with the Glory of Celestia.
You see exits leading north and west.
To your SOUTHWEST you see:
The Strands of Accursed Connivances.
The Pit of Dark Fates is visible many feet above. There are 3 squat imps here. Holy
light emanates from the ground here, filling the air with the Glory of Celestia.
Covered in bone armour, a screech owl is here, surveying the surroundings. Surrounded
by white lightning, a pure white thunderbird spreads her rainbow wings here, golden
eyes glowing with a noble intellect. A black-skinned imp squats here, long tail
twitching. A huge archdemon looms here, surrounded by black mist. Wrath of Brom,
Aluniira d'Murani is here, shrouded. She wields a twisted staff in her left hand.
Seneschal Enyalida Zayah is here. She wields a mystic cudgel in her left hand and a
four-pointed shield in her right. Provost Tulemrah Shevat, Tender of Breezes is here,
shrouded. She wields a delicate crystal staff in her left hand and a golden sunburst
shield in her right. Zephyr Tedd Cassius is here, shrouded. He wields a delicate
crystal staff in his left hand. Eliara Koicei, Student of Pain is here, shrouded. She
wields a damning symbol of domination in her left hand. Laelia Koicei is here. Rotund
Kalas Estwald, Insatiate Corpulence floats here amidst a faint twisting of paradigms
and a murmuring, shifting whisper of alternate realities. He wields a grim mandolin
of ebony wood and bone in his left hand and a bone-handled axe in his right.
You see exits leading north and east.
To your NORTHWEST you see:
The Strands of Bilious Guile.
Holy light emanates from the ground here, filling the air with the Glory of Celestia.
A black-skinned imp squats here, long tail twitching. A stunning fiend stands here,
playing with her hair.
You see exits leading east and south.
7163|96, 7245|100, 8280|120, 69, 95, 10p (xdbkSsim)- 22:21:02.720 (+370 Health, +274 Mana)
To your NORTHEAST you see:
The Strands of Twisted Truth.
Covered in webs, the Black Tome of Vile Secrets sits upon a pedestal constructed of
finger bones. Holy light emanates from the ground here, filling the air with the
Glory of Celestia. A malevolent demon prowls here. A stunning fiend stands here,
playing with her hair. A black-skinned imp squats here, long tail twitching. Silvanus
d'Murani is here, shrouded. He wields a twisted staff in his left hand and a massive
astral shield in his right. He is surrounded by one reflection of himself. Solanis
Talnara is here, fluid-like motes of effervescent light floating about his form. He
wields an athame dagger in his left hand and a golden sunburst shield in his right.
You see exits leading south and west.
To your SOUTHEAST you see:
The Strands of Sinister Deceit.
Holy light emanates from the ground here, filling the air with the Glory of Celestia.
You see exits leading north and west.
To your SOUTHWEST you see:
The Strands of Accursed Connivances.
The Pit of Dark Fates is visible many feet above. There are 3 squat imps here. Holy
light emanates from the ground here, filling the air with the Glory of Celestia.
Covered in bone armour, a screech owl is here, surveying the surroundings. Surrounded
by white lightning, a pure white thunderbird spreads her rainbow wings here, golden
eyes glowing with a noble intellect. A black-skinned imp squats here, long tail
twitching. A huge archdemon looms here, surrounded by black mist. Wrath of Brom,
Aluniira d'Murani is here, shrouded. She wields a twisted staff in her left hand.
Seneschal Enyalida Zayah is here. She wields a mystic cudgel in her left hand and a
four-pointed shield in her right. Provost Tulemrah Shevat, Tender of Breezes is here,
shrouded. She wields a delicate crystal staff in her left hand and a golden sunburst
shield in her right. Zephyr Tedd Cassius is here, shrouded. He wields a delicate
crystal staff in his left hand. Eliara Koicei, Student of Pain is here, shrouded. She
wields a damning symbol of domination in her left hand. Laelia Koicei is here. Rotund
Kalas Estwald, Insatiate Corpulence floats here amidst a faint twisting of paradigms
and a murmuring, shifting whisper of alternate realities. He wields a grim mandolin
of ebony wood and bone in his left hand and a bone-handled axe in his right.
You see exits leading north and east.
To your NORTHWEST you see:
The Strands of Bilious Guile.
Holy light emanates from the ground here, filling the air with the Glory of Celestia.
A black-skinned imp squats here, long tail twitching. A stunning fiend stands here,
playing with her hair.
You see exits leading east and south.
7163|96, 7245|100, 8280|120, 69, 95, 10p (xdbkSsim)- 22:21:02.720 (+370 Health, +274 Mana)
2 Geos, 2 Aeros, 1 Druid, five ranged attacks, along with Estwalds zapping. Also Shedrin at one point. Only saw zaps every now and then, no coordinated ones.
In my opinion, the failure in coordination was what messed you guys up.
Talan2011-07-22 21:11:09
QUOTE (AquaNeos @ Jul 22 2011, 05:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
2 Geos, 2 Aeros, 1 Druid, five ranged attacks, along with Estwalds zapping. Also Shedrin at one point. Only saw zaps every now and then, no coordinated ones.
In my opinion, the failure in coordination was what messed you guys up.
In my opinion, the failure in coordination was what messed you guys up.
Those are one way exits, you can't staffcast through them.
Silvanus2011-07-22 21:14:01
QUOTE (AquaNeos @ Jul 22 2011, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
2 Geos, 2 Aeros, 1 Druid, five ranged attacks, along with Estwalds zapping. Also Shedrin at one point. Only saw zaps every now and then, no coordinated ones.
In my opinion, the failure in coordination was what messed you guys up.
In my opinion, the failure in coordination was what messed you guys up.
Total fail.
We can't, we have to open a book to get there. See my post above. Celestia > Nil.
Neos2011-07-22 21:14:45
QUOTE (Talan @ Jul 22 2011, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Those are one way exits, you can't staffcast through them.
Ah, my bad.
@Silvanus
I browsed your post. And as I don't really know the layout of Nil fully, I made a false assumption, and was shown why it was wrong.
Lilia2011-07-22 21:21:02
The bottom line is that we put up a horrible defense. Elostian's shrine powers didn't get put back up when they faded, no one believed me that it was important to drop Viravain's shrine, and we waited for them to start attacking a Sphere before we went to engage. We did many things wrong, and I am not near as demoralized by this raid as I have been by others, because at least this time I know it was partly our fault.
Enyalida2011-07-22 21:23:36
QUOTE (AquaNeos @ Jul 22 2011, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ah, my bad.
Yup, and I couldn't figure how the hell to get things to work. The annoying Labyrinth thing meant I couldn't even use my bond smudge to send smudges most of the time.
Anyways, I sort of agree that Hallifax would have done a loooot better with more preparation. There was 30 minutes time after the Nil raid during which I checked my full meld on Ethreal, reset effects, attempted to organize, and made a point of specifically warning Hallifax that the DL group was 90% sure to come to Continuum.
There are some issues with Continuum though. One of those is that melds and shrines layed down by either side can be totally impossible to break, and once you have momentum going, it's incredibly hard to intercept groups on their way to more spheres. I think that with some clever shrine and meld laying, that could be fairly easily blocked by Hallifax, though. The problem there is numbers.
I do feel that sometimes balance is sacrificed at the altar of 'cool', and that's a big issue. I'm not exactly sure if this is a case of that. I'd like to point out that having more mobs that are of equivalent combined strength to less mobs isn't necessarily always a good deal, because you have more ground to defend.
Silvanus2011-07-22 21:33:08
QUOTE (AquaNeos @ Jul 22 2011, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ah, my bad.
@Silvanus
I browsed your post. And as I don't really know the layout of Nil fully, I made a false assumption, and was shown why it was wrong.
@Silvanus
I browsed your post. And as I don't really know the layout of Nil fully, I made a false assumption, and was shown why it was wrong.
It's understandable, and that is the one biggest thing that makes Supernals > Demon Lords. We can't staff you from the room away, and we if we go into the room, the Demon Lords kill us. Completely unfair compared to the Supernals.
Unknown2011-07-22 21:37:45
Oh man, if we're gonna talk about unfair, it takes like 3 rooms to move from one glom avatar to another, while it takes at least -4- to move from one seren avatar to the next 
Malicia2011-07-22 21:46:01
If they made it so Baalphegar were more exposed, I'd be for that. I hate to OPEN BOOK. Baalphegar tends to fear people out and split the group up plus it gets a bit discombobulating as everyone has to scramble to open the book and get back in.
Silvanus2011-07-22 21:48:53
QUOTE (Malicia @ Jul 22 2011, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If they made it so Baalphegar were more exposed, I'd be for that. I hate to OPEN BOOK. Baalphegar tends to fear people out and split the group up plus it gets a bit discombobulating as everyone has to scramble to open the book and get back in.
So instead of going to Baalphegar, then you go to Nifilhema, and we have to Enter Maiden, wait for spikes, then go into a room with an active demesne, and can't staff you from outside again.
Then, Nifilhema, Ashtorath or Baalphegar will do a room wide attack and kill most of Magnagora.
Eventru2011-07-22 21:51:23
That wouldn't be much different than raiding Supernals though, would it?
Silvanus2011-07-22 21:52:11
QUOTE (Eventru @ Jul 22 2011, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That wouldn't be much different than raiding Supernals though, would it?
Except we get staffed from a room away, while the people staffing are sitting in safety.
Vadi2011-07-22 21:54:56
QUOTE (Morbo @ Jul 22 2011, 04:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not suggesting that you guys are intentionally trying to grief, or that you are being unfair in raiding us. I am suggesting that the system is unfair because it is so much more difficult to defend spheres than it is to defend demonlords.
I don't think it is. The very reason we went for spheres was, because unlike Serenwilde, Hallifaxians did not bother at all to prepare a defence. Serenwilde did, Avatars were untouched.
Malicia2011-07-22 21:56:46
QUOTE (Silvanus @ Jul 22 2011, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Except we get staffed from a room away, while the people staffing are sitting in safety.
I think you're beefing up the benefits of staffing a room away. Can only hit one target and it's rare to have a bunch of mages on hand for defense. Also people are just monstrously tanky these days. You might get a few but the best way I've ever known to remove a Supernal keeling party is to enter and go nuts. Kamikaze.
Xenthos2011-07-22 21:57:37
Just one thing; after a RL year, it seems like it's about time to drop the 'we're new!' argument. That's 365+ days to pick up whatever experience one could dream of (if one was so inclined).
That said, population density is something you can talk about, but surprisingly Hallifax had more defenders than Magnagora did.
We also would have done Avatars if it wasn't impossible due to an already-entrenched defense.
Edit: Malicia speaks the truth, I remember Celestians kamikazi-ing on us during past Supernal raids.
That said, population density is something you can talk about, but surprisingly Hallifax had more defenders than Magnagora did.
We also would have done Avatars if it wasn't impossible due to an already-entrenched defense.
Edit: Malicia speaks the truth, I remember Celestians kamikazi-ing on us during past Supernal raids.
Lilia2011-07-22 21:58:32
I would love to see the room-wide attacks that don't discriminate between enemies and non-enemies toned -way- down. If we're taking the opportunity to complain about things we don't like about cosmic raids.
Silvanus2011-07-22 21:59:02
QUOTE (AquaNeos @ Jul 22 2011, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
2 Geos, 2 Aeros, 1 Druid, five ranged attacks, along with Estwalds zapping. Also Shedrin at one point. Only saw zaps every now and then, no coordinated ones.
In my opinion, the failure in coordination was what messed you guys up.
In my opinion, the failure in coordination was what messed you guys up.
QUOTE (Malicia @ Jul 22 2011, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think you're beefing up the benefits of staffing a room away. Can only hit one target and it's rare to have a bunch of mages on hand for defense. Also people are just monstrously tanky these days. You might get a few but the best way I've ever known to remove a Supernal keeling party is to enter and go nuts. Kamikaze.
...
So now, I have one Celestian telling me that we didn't do enough (even though we cuoldn't), and another saying it wouldn't make that big of a difference (it would). Considering, those who can survive can go in there, while the untanky ones can continue to provide damage from a room over, in safety.
Since Xenthos felt the need to edit, I'm sorry, no it wouldn't be the best way. A few people go in, and kamikaze, then the rest staff from the room away. 5 staffs/cudgels on one person, plus room wide attack, plus a couple people in there kamikazing, plus any Demis zapping. Ya sorry, that is much better then goign in there and having everyone under level 90 die in one or two attacks.
