I wonder why!

So great, we have another bit of lore that contradicts other bits? Fancy that. The lesson I guess is pick any physics you like for the world: it'll be as good as any other, in that it won't agree with other things, but few people will notice.

Hi! I'm into summer! But I don't think I match most of your categories. I'm old. I have a family, I'm from Serenwilde... and have four kids already... sooo. But I totally support this idea! Though perhaps you could incorporate a more sinister theme/aspect to it since you are in Glomdoring (it's been pointed out that this is pretty much a theme used by Serenwilde), like the times of Storms? (Spring), Drought (Summer), Famine (Fall/Winter) can't properly come up with the appropriate themes at the moment though.

Well, the theme might have been the length of the nights, but if there's that much controversy about it...

It could have been mostly Night-themed, making use of Night's adaptation in summer -- instead of fighting back against the longer days, she could be biding her time to release more of her influence come winter, etc.

You're in Lusternia, sir. Surely this isn't a surprise!

Mechanically, sure--Night is chased by Sun at a regular clip. The Night Bubble does suggest a more grounded, Earth-based celestial pattern, but it doesn't really detract from what Aeravira's trying to do. If she wants to go all Glomdoring, her ideas will probably intersect with the Night Bubble eventually.

As for Serenwilde's seasons--phooey. That sounds static. Yawn. We hide Summer in a closet.

All this the Seasons are for Serenwilde stuff makes me lol. I'm sure while technically Day and night never change length-wise, that's more of a mechanic thing, and one of many things we gloss over to keep things more realistic. Trayn, Winter Solstice talks about winter containing the longest night, while the reason Nyoro is so Sun-loving is because the Summer Solstice has the shortest nights, and thus the littlest of night's influence. I always thought it was one of those assumed things, that while mechanics don't portray, we kind of just 'go with'.


Edit: Also, Aeravira, it depends on what you want to do. If you want this whole seasonal thing, and only that, I would suggest going Seren, as in Glom, Wyrd, Night, and Crow heavily pervade everything. Glom ethos is sort of like, no matter the season, Wyrd waxes strong. It wouldn't conflict, but if you don't include Wyrden undertones (and you had already said you would, so this whole thing is a bit superfluous) it would seem a bit strange, at least in my opinion.

Right, I was hoping to give it a wyrden touch. The length of the Nights is the only thing I think of to incorporate so far, but I'm sure inspiration will hit me sooner or later for something else!

Edit: This could, of course, also be a chance to develop more of the wyrden lore and culture.

It isn't. Without access to the specific NPC mumbling in question one might come to completely different conclusions, like that seasons are caused by Moon chilling things throughout the year in contrast to the sun, which is why the seaons/Winter are an Etherwilde/Seren thing and compatible with the mechanics.

Well, since Lusternia isn't filled with scientists and scientific proof of how the seasons are actually caused/what they do and do not affect, I suppose it's all relative, isn't it? In respect to the communes, based on primitive-like beliefs: we compare what we see to things that we know and come to relative (and our own) conclusions about what they are and how things work, in conjunction with the guidance of the respective Great Spirits.

(Such as in real-world ancient cultures, where the sun was believed to be a brilliant chariot driven across the sky by Helios in Greek mythology instead of being a great big ball of burning gas that we believe now)

So, what I'm drawing from this is that my idea can succeed in Glomdoring provided it's wyrden-themed enough and relative enough to Glomdoring's own beliefs about the seasons and nature in general. Which is fine by me, as that's most of the fun, and Aeravira is inclined towards the tribal (/primitive) way of life anyway.

Now see, you just brought up something that Fallout covered that I think you need to rethink. Tribal does not mean primitive. Tribal is a form of social organization, in a matter similar to the clan, not a state of technological advancement.

Yeah, don't go around Glomdoring with the idea that Tribal means primitive, that might fire back on you quite harshly.

My bad, I misunderstood the concept.

I have no particular opinion on your plans, I was mainly contesting Astraea's assertion that it was really something everyone should be interpreting as neutral instead of Seren-themed at all regardless of what the actual world says. You could hazard that either the mechanics design just hasn't caught up to the canon OR that whoever was writing the mobs in that zone lost the plot.

I will point out though that regardless of the relationship between the ideas of "tribal" and "primitive", in Lusternia religious and specifically animistic beliefs actually correlate with reality instead of just being evolutionary artefacts, and various entities have a habit of making testable predictions about the future once the admin get around to writing said predictions and backdating them, so the whole assessment of epistemology goes completely out the window.

Also if you find yourself needing some more help with this, like rituals, Daem and Valonah and accomplished ritualists, and though we are more on the sophisticated/cheery side, while Druken is more on the opposite cold/sophisticated side, we'd completely be willing to help and would enjoy it immensly. You are already familiar with us, and we are excited to see more of you. Talking with you last night was enjoyable!

It was far, far too late to assume that Lusternia's planetary mechanics are based on spherical planets and suns and such, long before there was a Night Bubble. The first day of open beta, that was already impossible thanks to the measureable presences and absences of the moon, relative to its phases. There can't be an axial tilt because there can't be revolutions and rotations of bodies. So if they want there to be seasons, there has to be some other cause; and if they want there to be longer and shorter days, there has to be some other cause; and there's absolutely no reason why they have to be the same cause.

Now given that it's trivially easy to measure that the time of sunset and sunrise do not change in a dozen different ways, including the behavior of rocs in Oleanvir and the times when you can and can't bond to certain spirits, I think the really logical conclusion to reach, if you cared about finding a logical conclusion, is that some particular being on Night Bubble is following a very well-established precedent of deception, or an even better-established precedent of delusion. (Or in OOC terms, what Nejii said: some builder assumed that the way seasons work on Earth applied, and no one caught it in time. Combined with the likelihood that the reason Lisaera dodged my question is that there is no canon answer out there yet -- she was just covering for a future one that Estarra would reveal or invent at some point, if it seemed necessary.)

I really don't see why any of this matters to the OP. He or she can base the roleplay on what Night Bubble denizens claim, or not, as desired. It won't be the tiniest bit more or less appropriate either way. The point here is, don't get in the habit of assuming that the world is round and orbits a star, any more than the ancient Greeks assumed that it was flat and the sun orbited it; it's up to Lusternia (read: Estarra) how it really works, not your assumptions, and it doesn't have to be like either the real world or mythic Greece if it doesn't want to.

Whoa now, read the AB for totems sun? We have a solar system.

Edit: Talk about assumptions.

We've got a star. That we must orbit, because it's at the center. I do think that seasons are more of a Seren thing, but also that it's up to players to play out whatever parts the want.

I don't agree with essentially anything else you are saying here, and it's unfounded, you're making exactly as many assumptions as everyone else (on top of being sarcastic and standoffish).

@Aeravira: Just expect some resistance/apathy from a fair amount people outside of your family if you aren't careful to offend sensibilities. I suggest recruiting a scholarly type as a sister to write out any stuff you want to flesh out in the world, if you need to. USUALLY, if something is published, well written, and not directly contradicted somewhere obvious, no one will really throw a fit about it. Usually, the admins (Esty included) are totally fine to leave things if players come up with a good reason that dosn't clash with the setting, even if it comes to their attention. One thing you may do to deal with the summer thing is to not gather a player for that season, and have part of the rp being looking for her in Glomdoring, like, you are trying to find a reincarnation of her that isn't anti-Glom-ish. Or something.

Astrologers would protest a lot of those points, but the bottom line is true for anything we dream up for the sake of good roleplay:

we can say whatever we want to say and convince other people to say it with us (remember False Memory? the lack of taint in Glomdoring?). The only people Who can say otherwise (and I'm even willing to throw out that I'd only ever really believe Estarra on some of these issues) are the Elder Gods. A lot of them aren't outspoken or finite in their answers to lore-changing questions (see above), and so if Aerovira wants to do this in Glomdoring, she will likely be subjected to poking and prodding from people who believe what the Night Bubble denizens say. Because, well, they're connected to Glomdoring.

It's fun. It's even worth this little debate. Serenwilde will disagree, as they always do!, about our Glomdorkian philosophies, and Night will still get chased across the sky by that loser, Sun.

I want a cookie, too.

I am not saying there isn't evidence in favor of this. I'm just saying there's even more evidence against it. Maybe if I say this in bigger letters it'll be clearer this time:

There is no right answer. Lusternia contradicts itself.

The fun part is there are people arguing with me by proposing both sides of the opposing evidence here.

But again, for those who prefer not to get the point:

I don't see much contradiction there, though, because axial tilt is just one of many factors contributing to seasonal climate change. There's a reason the winter solstice marks the beginning of winter, rather than the middle. In a world where magic is an everyday occurrence, it would make perfect sense to me if some cataclysmic event caused the first cycle of seasons, and the normal processes of tides, weather patterns, and the pull of the moon, along with a dash of that original magic, perpetuated it into a continual cycle that fuels itself. No need for the amount of daylight to change at all.

ohgodimahugenerd