Actually, a few people have joined Glomdoring due to intra-org conflicts and drama in their previous organization...

I joined Glom to be bros with Shuyin, but then he went to Gaudi.

Obvious Straw-man is obvious.

A.) My proposed ability doesn't allow you to attack out of it. You can attack out of Deepcover. How is Deepcover obsolete again?
B.) You obviously don't know how successful subterfuge and information-use works. If anyone found out x had a fight with y, and then subsequently went to y and said hey I heard you had a fight with x, wanna join Glom? that person ought to be shot, and is a TERRIBLE person at being secret and manipulative.
C.) Glomdoring's reputation: This skill would sustain it, your argument is moot here.
D.) The only thing that would prevent aethermanse use, presumably, would be doors, just like any other environment

I'm not building off anything but what has been said, and my main point still stands: "It seems like a lot of work and clarification for very little gain, to the point that I would not bother with an envoy report on it." Everything else is just trying to get clarification on certain points, and display my objection to spying being a very useful thing.

I, personally, am not inclined to believe anything anyone tells me unless I have some firsthand experience that would validate their information, and I'm similarly inclined to confirm what I hear through the grapevine before making and decisions. Generally, if someone hears something from someone that can be traced back to someone who has an ulterior motive, provided it's information in the realm of politics or persuasion, and not (for instance) skill statistic information. Perhaps I'm the only one who does this?

A huge concept of deepcover is getting past guards and defenses, ostensibly to spy on things like elders and mess with epic quests, right? Masquerade and deepcover stop using aethermanses, presumably so that you can not use them to abuse the way that entrance privs are set. That probably wouldn't be an issue with camouflage, it depends on how certain parts of it are coded, I guess.



It gets compicated. Questions that may need answering: Why use 10p up-front deepcover (also using up time on a mask) and still be noticeable as someone tries to send that person a tell and is ignored if you can just camouflage, drop in and take something to disrupt and orgbix back out. You'd have to stick a considerable stun/offeq on the end of it to discourage that sort of thing, perhaps conditionally only in enemy territory, and do you want to define that as only player enemy territory, or denizen enemy territory also? What happens if you are in camouflage if a dreamweaver in dreambody floats, presumably they'd see you in the room, phased. Would they be able to afflict you and attack you with all their dreambody stuff? Presumably you'd count as being awake for the purposes of dreammotes (have to test this with glamours users, actually) but void, haunt, the sleep attacks, sap, and channel would all work. Would burst just damage you, or knock you out of camouflage? You said that you wouldn't be able to interact with objects outside of perhaps certain artifacts. Does this include things in your inventory (as with dreamweavers)? That would leave you mighty open to attack from dreamweavers. I'm not sure, but does setting a puzzle point count as offensive? If not, and you could use your inventory, that may or may not cause minor issues. I'd advise not letting you interact with anything, and only use infiltrate. Eavesdrop doesn't seem necessary, as you could just walk over and stand in the target room, though it's not a problem to keep eavesdrop. You wouldn't be able to follow past enemy territory lines, presumably.

Seems like a big headache.

I'd just like to point out that I haven't used deepcover for "things like elders and mess with epic quests". Not sure about the Ninjas, but I'm also fairly sure no Nekotai's been doing that as well. Deepcover, contrary to your assumption, has many applications beyond griefing, like org-scale conflict in Lusternian politics (I mean the mechanical POLITICS, not the roleplay type) and is mostly applied for a wide variety of uses (wildnodes, harvesting in enemy territory)

Because of its wide combat applications, deepcover is also heavily limited and restricted, like you mentioned, Enyalida. Can't deepcover (or even masquerade) into manses, cannot use it to bypass perms on module locking, doesn't redirect tells, can be bypassed via looking at the masquerader if you know who he is or just by wild guesses, no invulnerability to personal enemy lists and user is still targettable, drops on offensive actions etc etc.

Having said all that, I don't think it's a bad idea to have an RP version of deepcover with better spying/rp applications. I haven't actually read this thread fully (just skimmed it) so I'm not sure what exactly Tau is suggesting. I think I saw somewhere in the thread that it's supposed to be a bastardized, weaker version of phase. If the suggestion doesn't create possibility for griefing (anymore than current mechanics do, at any rate) then its benefits already outweigh the effort needed to put it in. Looking beyond the "We're STEALTH, we should be able to SPY!" justification, this game has great org-level conflict systems in place, but not as much coded mechanics for individualized RP. Allowing a phase-esque ability for a person to walk into an enemy territory (with all the risks that come with it) and interact on a personal level with whoever he encounters (or even just spy on mudsex and use that for blackmail) is something I can definitely get behind.

I'm not a voyeur at heart. No, really.

The problem, also, is that deepcover just simply does not last long enough to do anything worth the ten power in any kind of spying role. It lasts an entire 90 seconds. Thats really my problem with Deepcover

I have used masking (without even deepcover) to walk into places I shouldnt be, and have in fact used those same masks to ask people to leave or in other ways abandon what they are doing. This is how I managed to get Hifarae done without people interfering.