In the Elder Book where Sun was wtftainted, there's a bit there about how there's the Sun (spirit) and the Sun (physical manifestation). They bound the Sun (spirit) because, well, he was wtftainted, but the Sun (physical manifestation) continued to 'live on'.

Right, but does Mother Moon ever manifest in Serenwilde as a shining silver woman, similar to how Night appears? That's the kind of thing that could have been meant by "physical manifestation"...

Right, but does Mother Moon ever manifest in Serenwilde as a shining silver woman, similar to how Night appears? That's the kind of thing that could have been meant by "physical manifestation"...

Moon herself? No. Only her aspects.

The physical manifestation, as far as I can tell, is the heavenly body. The Spirits themselves (like the appearification of Night) are the parts that have been awakened, and are manifested reflections of the body. Think...the Moonhart Mother Tree, and EtherMother. Nexuses probably aren't the -best- comparison since they're a whole other breed of oddity, but I think it's close. At least, in my mind.

In the Book where Sun is frolicking about with the lions, it uses wording similar to Sun 'sending down' part of his spirit to exist and do said frolicking.

I can't find my old logs right now. in the dual Moon/Night ritual in Faethorn a couple years ago? The one where we were trying to find information from both of them when the Elder Gods were losing their minds (or souls, or whatever). They both manifested, didn't they? Or was it just their voices? It's been a long time since I've read that one, so I can't totally remember.

Enyalida:

Except we totally do have planets and a solar system, apparently. Stuff is weird. The sun and moon are at once bodies in the sky, as well as spirits!

Lusternia doesn't have a solar system, per say. Both Sun and Moon (and all of the other planets) revolve around Lusternia. The only sort of eclipse that could happen is when Sun and Moon are at the same point in the same sign, which occurs on the following nine dates/times every year:

Urlachmar 9th at 4PM (in Glacier)
Kiani 17th at 4AM (in Volcano)
Dioni 24th at 4PM (in Antlers)
Avechary 7th at 4AM (in Crystals)
Dvarsh 17th at 4AM (in Lion)
Tzarin 24th at 4PM (in Crocodile)
Juliary 7th at 4AM (in Bumblebee)
Shanthin 17th at 4AM (in Dragon)
Roarkian 24th at 4PM (in Skull)

So it's entirely possible that they never actually eclipse eachother.

eritheyl:
. The Spirits themselves (like the appearification of Night) are the parts that have been awakened, and are manifested reflections of the body. Think...the Moonhart Mother Tree, and EtherMother.

Rather, think Moonhart Mother Tree and Miakoda. She's a dryad-like fae manifestation of the tree itself.

Greleag:

Lusternia doesn't have a solar system, per say.

Astrology refers to other planets: Eroee, Sidiak, Tarox, Papaxi and Aapek. And totems calls Sun the "center of the solar system".

I'm fairly sure that the sun and Sun are different entities. Sun is the awakened spirit of the sun.

Rather, think Moonhart Mother Tree and Miakoda. She's a dryad-like fae manifestation of the tree itself.

Actually yes, that's a much better comparison! Thanks for reminding me of that :D

It's not a solar system unless the sun is at the center. What we have is some sort of terran system

Greleag:

It's not a solar system unless the sun is at the center. What we have is some sort of terran system

Like I said, the Totems AB calls sun the "centre of the solar system".

AB files often contradict eachother. I'd ignore that, if I were you.

Greleag:


Lusternia doesn't have a solar system, per say. Both Sun and Moon (and all of the other planets) revolve around Lusternia. The only sort of eclipse that could happen is when Sun and Moon are at the same point in the same sign, which occurs on the following nine dates/times every year:

Urlachmar 9th at 4PM (in Glacier)
Kiani 17th at 4AM (in Volcano)
Dioni 24th at 4PM (in Antlers)
Avechary 7th at 4AM (in Crystals)
Dvarsh 17th at 4AM (in Lion)
Tzarin 24th at 4PM (in Crocodile)
Juliary 7th at 4AM (in Bumblebee)
Shanthin 17th at 4AM (in Dragon)
Roarkian 24th at 4PM (in Skull)

So it's entirely possible that they never actually eclipse eachother.

Also, keep in mind that the planets go retrograde. That can ONLY happen (in a scientific manner) if the object and the observer are both revolving around another body. Because the planets are not personified anywhere in the lore (afaik), we can assume they don't just decide to switch around and that they are indeed not revolving around US, because of their retrograde activity

Neither Moon nor Sun goes retrograde. As such, my theory is that they literally just go backwards through the sky on occasion.

Greleag:

Neither Moon nor Sun goes retrograde. As such, my theory is that they literally just go backwards through the sky on occasion.

This honestly wouldn't surprise me in Lusternia, I find no flaws in this theory on that front :P

Greleag:

Neither Moon nor Sun goes retrograde. As such, my theory is that they literally just go backwards through the sky on occasion.

In a solar system, the moon and sun of a planet don't go retrograde either... Which is more supportive evidence of a solar system! Sorry, I don't think you're going to go anywhere trying to say that the literal physical orientation of things is anything but that of a solar system , no more then you could get away with saying that Lusternia is flat (when there is evidence to the contrary).

EDIT: If the planets were to just suddenly go backwards of their own volition (which is quite an odd occurrence, especially on such a regular and predictable timetable, to the point that we can calculate these movements a century in advance), why is there nothing in the canon lore of Lusternia indicating that they have some form of sentience, as the greeks did when they coined the term 'planet'. IC you can say whatever you please but from a more 'factual' perspective, the only reasonable conclusion to the planet problem is that there is in fact a solar system. Keep in mind that sun did exist before Sun, as night existed before Night and moon existed before Moon. I see no reason that we can't separate the heavenly bodies from the spirits that arose from their latent energies.

Blah, hit the quote button instead of the edit button.

Retrograde motion can happen just fine in geocentric models with epicycles. The ancient Greeks were well aware of it, and it didn't stop the geocentric theory being widely accepted for 1500 years. Don't forget that a major reason why Copernicanism was initially rejected was because the model of circular heliocentric orbits gave less accurate predictions than the highly refined Ptolemaic epicycles-upon-epicycles-upon-epicycles scheme.

I'm still not seeing convincing counterevidence to suggest that they system is... Lustcentric... rather than heliocentric, like the Totem's AB suggests. I'm not sure why we should ignore the Ab file unless better evidence presents itself.

Riluna:

I can't find my old logs right now. in the dual Moon/Night ritual in Faethorn a couple years ago? The one where we were trying to find information from both of them when the Elder Gods were losing their minds (or souls, or whatever). They both manifested, didn't they? Or was it just their voices? It's been a long time since I've read that one, so I can't totally remember.

http://forums.luster...showtopic=16708

Being there was amazing. One of the few large-scale (I count 29 people in the room at one point there) SerenGlom RP interactions that ended without real casualties (on the commune ends, anyway!)

EDIT: Seeing all those old names and titles makes me feel nostalgic!