Steady goldsinks

by Sakr

Back to Common Grounds.

Razenth2011-09-15 00:14:30
Don't say 'now'.

I haven't hunted for my gold in close to a century. I've always made as much gold as I do now. Except in the old days, when I had twice as much gold as I do now, I would never have been able to buy out the entire market. A huge chunk? Yes. All of it? No, not like the situation today.

Speculation comes into play then, because a smaller supply allows one person to more easily corner the entire market. I could, for example, buy all the credits right now and resell at max rate. I won't, cause that's a dick move, but I know SOMEONE did it quite recently.
Ssaliss2011-09-15 00:16:56
QUOTE (Razenth @ Sep 15 2011, 02:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not enough creeeeedits. That's the problem! I know a couple of people that could buy out the entire supply on the market, right now. Myself included.

Not sure how more goldsinks will make that problem better. The people with the moolah will just go hunt for the gold, since, as we noticed, gold drops are nice and big nowadays.

Will they buy credits to sell with real world money for temporary boosts? Don't think so.

I mean, seals were a big goldsink right? But by now, I would definitely place them in the Shamarah's old, "New stuff that we forgot about" thread.

Let's face it; seals were useless as goldsinks. Why would someone pay just to have a bit of color on a letter?

As for a bigger supply... well, that would also solve the problem part-way, although even with the current promo going on, it hasn't made much of a dent.

Would people sell credits bought with RL money to afford gold sinks? That would depend on the gold sink, of course. If it's the right gold sink (and by right, I mean something that a majority of people actually want, instead of just fluff), then they will at least spend the gold they'd otherwise spend on the credit market, and more importantly, remove the gold from circulation.
Unknown2011-09-15 00:37:24
QUOTE (Ssaliss @ Sep 14 2011, 08:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've always said that some people (apparently you included) make much more gold now than they used to. Not everyone make much more gold though (myself included). The price for esteem, for instance, have stayed pretty constant, meaning influencers don't make much more gold than they used to (which I, personally, believe is the cause of a shortage of demand, and does not have to do with the influx of gold; you can compare this to the price of herbs, refills, etc. which have also stayed constant and has a huge supply).


Aha! So there's the reason. Assuming you are correct, the esteem price hasn't moved with the increase in gold. Therefore, people who rely on esteem for income have been left behind. There might be several reasons for this- orgs having a "standard" price that has proven sticky, more influencing generating more esteem now that denizens are more dangerous to fight, etc. Some of the same logic applies to herbs and such- sometimes prices can simply be slow to move, and trail the market. Or perhaps herbs/refills were generating more profit than was required for people to still want to do that for money prior to the changes, and competetion has merely meant that the prices don't move, even as gold supply increases.

QUOTE
Credits, however, are always in demand, and the people raking in the big money can afford to buy the higher-priced credits. Personally, I've not bought a single credit in a few months. You can blame speculation all you want; however, the simple truth is that speculation fails if no one is willing to buy at the higher price. And why would speculation make such a huge difference now, when it hasn't before?


People are buying at the higher price though. You are not, and that is lamentable, but some people are. Furthermore, speculators, after a certain point, literally influence the market themselves, instead of just riding it. Like Razenth said above, some people could literally buy out the market. So, in underpants gnome style:

Step 1: Buy a large amount of market credits. (Or several people engaging in the same activity do so).

Step 2: Sit on the credits. Buy more if they come up.

Step 3: By sitting on the credits, you remove them from the supply. By removing them from supply, you shrink the supply without shrinking the demand, creating a higher price.

Step 4: Watch the price go up, not just naturally, but because of your actions.

Step 5: ??? (because this is required for underpants gnome steps)

Step 6: Profit!

So speculation isn't defeated by some, or even a significant number of people, dropping out of the market! So long as enough remain in to drive the price up, it is a "winning" strategy for the speculator. Heck, you could even devise a hypothetical where just a very few speculators feed off of eachother unwittingly in an endless rising death spiral.
Ssaliss2011-09-15 01:04:14
Well, first off, I think I already pointed out (with examples) that I don't gain much more gold than before even when bashing. That has nothing to do with esteem; that was added as an aside. Personally, I don't sell any esteem anymore; not for lack of bidders, but because I simply don't care to. As for herbs and refills, that is, again, an entirely different matter. The supply of herbs and refills are massive enough that it would take a coordinated effort to break the current status quo.

Regarding credits, and me not buying any; I never said that was wrong, nor that it was the reason I was arguing against it. As I've said, I only see the credit market as a symptom of the true problem: an influx of gold. There are too many ways to get gold into the system (and for those lucky enough to be able to take full advantage of it, those ways are also rather massive), and too few ways to remove it. If all ways were equally boosted, then by all means, I would not complain; however, not all people were boosted equally. Many did not get any kind of increase of income, and I would bet only a relatively small percentage actually got that huge increase you were talking about. THAT is what I'm discussing here. And since I very much doubt anything will happen to the gold influx (judging by Estarras answer, she would rather increase the commodity prices again), I propose ways to actually siphon that gold away instead. Instead of spending it all on the credit market (which is likely why you are now able to buy out the entire stock on it), they would spend it on the gold sinks. Sure, not everyone would, but it would be a bigger outflow of gold than there is currently. Would it instantly solve everything? No. Of course not. Would it help against the inflation? Yes, yes it would.

I don't think I'll say much more on the subject though. You've made your standpoint rather clear in that you think the credit market looks the way it does mostly because of speculators. It's not a theory I agree with, but let's leave it at that.
Unknown2011-09-15 01:16:21
I hate "last word" posts, since you're done, so I'll just recap and clarify my own long windedness:

-Prices are high for several reasons, many of which are natural to the market. My strident harping on speculation addresses elements that I feel aren't natural to the system.

-I do not feel a gold sinks are the best solution. At best, I am of the opinion that they'd have a short term effect, they may well be entirely ineffectual, and at worst, they may backfire or even raise balance concerns all of their own. I would rather not see content added to the game brought about largely for an attempt at engineering the credit market.

-Even if I am fully right, and speculators are a problem, and they are stopped utterly, the market will still not return to the days of yore. But the price would be more "pure" for lack of a better word. Any remaining true inequities should be addressed with tweaks to the existing system without doing the economic equivalent of fishing with depth charges.
Unknown2011-09-15 01:20:41
-sigh-

Gold drops over time HAVE NOT CHANGED IN ANY APPRECIABLE EXTENT. Only the size of individual drops has increased... in near perfect proportion with the time/effort/expenditure required to kill them.

This means that the increase in market prices are not due to ANY SHORTTERM SURGE IN GOLD SUPPLIES.

Similarly, speculators were just as capable, -and- active then, as they are now, with the same level of gold supplies.

Deduction: This is a product of either long term gold supply increases finally coming to realization, or a lack of credit supply.

Solutions:
1) Reduce gold supply in a manner that does not penalize in-game achievement and activity.
2) Stimulate increase in credit supply.
Rathan2011-09-15 01:24:38
I'm surprised none of you have touched on one salient point yet, which is that the playerbase as a whole is ageing. It certainly can't account for all of the increase, but the fact is, there are just MORE demis/ascendants/avatars now than there were x years ago. Even if every other factor were held constant, a large chunk of the playerbase being in 'endgame' means that this chunk is now gaining gold in the high-level hunting spots when many of them used to be getting gold in Newton Caverns.

Gold income scales dramatically with level, so while a level 100 now might be making the same amount as a level 100 when credits were 4k, the fact that there are far more lvl 100s around means that more people are able to seriously compete for the relatively unchanging supply of credits with a smaller amount of effort. Another promo like the IRE-wide "alter ego" credit sale might help ameliorate this, by encouraging people to start alts, though one could argue over just how effective that technique really was.

Then again, I slept through both my economics classes, so your mileage may vary on my two cents, especially with these gas prices. >_>
Ssaliss2011-09-15 01:51:13
I took the time to go through the logs and scan my CFS output (or rather, the cheapest credits at the time). Here it is. Two events of note: The auctions, which started late March (announce 1746) and the mob changes, which started late May (announce 1770). Not sure when guards entered. Draw what conclusions you wish.

It's split into four codeboxes because one wouldn't fit it all.
CODE

20080315_023640.txt
5 credits at 4800 gold per credit.
20080316_035711.txt
19 credits at 5000 gold per credit.
20080317_215551.txt
75 credits at 5200 gold per credit.
20080317_220908.txt
43 credits at 5000 gold per credit.
20080317_231151.txt
14 credits at 5000 gold per credit.
20080318_023535.txt
15 credits at 5000 gold per credit.
20080318_085146.txt
8 credits at 5000 gold per credit.

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20090509_162723.txt
3 credits at 5700 gold per credit.
20091220_194915.txt
27 credits at 7300 gold per credit.
20091221_012857.txt
18 credits at 7299 gold per credit.
20091221_165623.txt
25 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
20091222_211423.txt
2 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20091227_135912.txt
39 credits at 6849 gold per credit.
39 credits at 6849 gold per credit.
39 credits at 6849 gold per credit.
20091227_184341.txt
13 credits at 6400 gold per credit.
20091228_013234.txt
2 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20091228_033947.txt
250 credits at 6550 gold per credit.
20091228_215240.txt
26 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
1 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20091229_155527.txt
150 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
15 credits at 6890 gold per credit.
22 credits at 6950 gold per credit.
22 credits at 6950 gold per credit.
20091231_015116.txt
10 credits at 6000 gold per credit.

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20100101_001828.txt
15 credits at 6799 gold per credit.
10 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
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14 credits at 6799 gold per credit.
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50 credits at 6199 gold per credit.
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30 credits at 6999 gold per credit.
30 credits at 6999 gold per credit.
20100106_160119.txt
15 credits at 6799 gold per credit.
20100107_152112.txt
11 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
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5 credits at 6950 gold per credit.
3 credits at 6950 gold per credit.
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40 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
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10 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
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6 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
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27 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
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28 credits at 6699 gold per credit.
27 credits at 6699 gold per credit.
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25 credits at 6699 gold per credit.
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45 credits at 6650 gold per credit.
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20 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
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50 credits at 6590 gold per credit.
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26 credits at 6475 gold per credit.
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100 credits at 6998 gold per credit.
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98 credits at 6950 gold per credit.
98 credits at 6950 gold per credit.
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38 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
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12 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
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9 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
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14 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
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2 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
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79 credits at 6650 gold per credit.
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59 credits at 6650 gold per credit.
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33 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
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59 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
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41 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
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48 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
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39 credits at 6899 gold per credit.
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19 credits at 6899 gold per credit.
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6 credits at 6950 gold per credit.
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10 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
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1 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
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14 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
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10 credits at 7349 gold per credit.
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26 credits at 7099 gold per credit.
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150 credits at 7200 gold per credit.
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15 credits at 6950 gold per credit.
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38 credits at 7050 gold per credit.
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8 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
91 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
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11 credits at 7100 gold per credit.
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7 credits at 7330 gold per credit.
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150 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
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20 credits at 6940 gold per credit.
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24 credits at 7175 gold per credit.
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3 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
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46 credits at 6989 gold per credit.
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60 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
5 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
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75 credits at 6995 gold per credit.
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5 credits at 6999 gold per credit.
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5 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
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9 credits at 6950 gold per credit.
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16 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
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20 credits at 7099 gold per credit.
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20 credits at 7099 gold per credit.
34 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
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91 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
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50 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
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50 credits at 6850 gold per credit.
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16 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
26 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
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12 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
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10 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
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20 credits at 7075 gold per credit.
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9 credits at 7050 gold per credit.
9 credits at 7050 gold per credit.
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12 credits at 7040 gold per credit.
9 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
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10 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
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37 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
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7 credits at 6996 gold per credit.
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16 credits at 6999 gold per credit.
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10 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
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68 credits at 7400 gold per credit.
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7 credits at 7195 gold per credit.
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3 credits at 7195 gold per credit.
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5 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
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242 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
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3 credits at 6850 gold per credit.
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10 credits at 6890 gold per credit.
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158 credits at 6950 gold per credit.
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3 credits at 6850 gold per credit.
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146 credits at 6950 gold per credit.
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25 credits at 6940 gold per credit.
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2 credits at 6950 gold per credit.
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16 credits at 6750 gold per credit.
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27 credits at 7249 gold per credit.
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3 credits at 7200 gold per credit.
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8 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
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16 credits at 6890 gold per credit.
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429 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
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18 credits at 7200 gold per credit.
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67 credits at 7100 gold per credit.
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49 credits at 7100 gold per credit.
49 credits at 7100 gold per credit.
60 credits at 7100 gold per credit.
20100704_150206.txt
35 credits at 7350 gold per credit.
20100704_214459.txt
48 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
87 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
20100705_200106.txt
10 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
10 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
20100708_090052.txt
16 credits at 6750 gold per credit.
20100708_153338.txt
9 credits at 6475 gold per credit.
15 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20100708_223509.txt
23 credits at 6799 gold per credit.
20100709_230719.txt
2 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
20100713_114813.txt
41 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20100713_122343.txt
38 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20100713_172057.txt
61 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
58 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20100714_183545.txt
39 credits at 6650 gold per credit.
20100717_045040.txt
18 credits at 6875 gold per credit.
10 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20100717_145339.txt
5 credits at 6650 gold per credit.
20100718_181806.txt
8 credits at 6875 gold per credit.
2 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20100719_231659.txt
40 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20100720_184125.txt
40 credits at 7200 gold per credit.
20100720_214306.txt
36 credits at 7200 gold per credit.
20100721_132549.txt
9 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
20100722_003509.txt
5 credits at 6650 gold per credit.
20100722_132053.txt
9 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20100725_014747.txt
18 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
20100731_210910.txt
3 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
1 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20100801_014404.txt
131 credits at 6975 gold per credit.
20100801_034142.txt
126 credits at 6975 gold per credit.
43 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
43 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20100801_123657.txt
2 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20100802_155439.txt
7 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
20100802_231056.txt
187 credits at 6750 gold per credit.
20100803_070913.txt
85 credits at 6675 gold per credit.
75 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
75 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
20100803_203533.txt
2 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20100805_024744.txt
14 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20100805_133121.txt
9 credits at 6550 gold per credit.
20100806_112236.txt
46 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
76 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
76 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
76 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
8 credits at 6750 gold per credit.
4 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
8 credits at 6750 gold per credit.
8 credits at 6750 gold per credit.
38 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
25 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20100806_201935.txt
1 credits at 6599 gold per credit.
1 credits at 6599 gold per credit.
10 credits at 6200 gold per credit.
50 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
50 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
20100807_201816.txt
10 credits at 5999 gold per credit.
9 credits at 5999 gold per credit.
20100808_134728.txt
6 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
20100809_132826.txt
10 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
20100809_160449.txt
56 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
4 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20100809_213030.txt
9 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20100809_235334.txt
5 credits at 5700 gold per credit.
15 credits at 5500 gold per credit.
5 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
18 credits at 6075 gold per credit.
10 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20100810_130309.txt
73 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
68 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
20100811_001431.txt
5 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
5 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
20100811_202226.txt
1 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20100812_191652.txt
19 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
20100814_030438.txt
47 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
20100815_013228.txt
10 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
20100816_223830.txt
7 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
20100817_111534.txt
2 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20100823_221105.txt
211 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20100824_155456.txt
3 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20100825_184640.txt
118 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20100825_215029.txt
4 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20100826_092906.txt
180 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20100826_120618.txt
4 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20100826_211137.txt
8 credits at 6400 gold per credit.
8 credits at 6400 gold per credit.
8 credits at 6400 gold per credit.
6 credits at 6400 gold per credit.
7 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20100829_141628.txt
7 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20100829_220104.txt
10 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20100830_213355.txt
5 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
20100831_172614.txt
20 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20100902_063205.txt
5 credits at 6400 gold per credit.
48 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20100902_211649.txt
91 credits at 6200 gold per credit.
20100904_095046.txt
9 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
9 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
20100904_142623.txt
19 credits at 6400 gold per credit.
20100904_195208.txt
10 credits at 6350 gold per credit.
18 credits at 6200 gold per credit.
9 credits at 6350 gold per credit.
6 credits at 6349 gold per credit.
20100906_090605.txt
297 credits at 6450 gold per credit.
20100908_133936.txt
31 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20100908_170851.txt
125 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
10 credits at 6250 gold per credit.
10 credits at 6599 gold per credit.
6 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
6 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20100909_165048.txt
10 credits at 6699 gold per credit.
44 credits at 6699 gold per credit.
20100911_204728.txt
1 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20100912_201200.txt
70 credits at 6949 gold per credit.
20100914_110907.txt
80 credits at 6200 gold per credit.
20100914_185926.txt
61 credits at 6698 gold per credit.
20100915_114226.txt
328 credits at 6200 gold per credit.
20 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20100915_155134.txt
95 credits at 6400 gold per credit.
95 credits at 6400 gold per credit.
20100915_214355.txt
26 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
26 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
26 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
20100916_185519.txt
48 credits at 6200 gold per credit.
20100917_005146.txt
7 credits at 6200 gold per credit.
20100919_145139.txt
82 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20100919_181325.txt
9 credits at 6490 gold per credit.
20100921_154909.txt
35 credits at 6250 gold per credit.
35 credits at 6250 gold per credit.
6 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20100921_173551.txt
19 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
20100928_131332.txt
5 credits at 6200 gold per credit.
20100928_170159.txt
26 credits at 6400 gold per credit.
20101001_161631.txt
35 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
20101004_000207.txt
4 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
4 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
9 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
20101006_125942.txt
2 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
6 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
5 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20101007_131345.txt
5 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
21 credits at 6950 gold per credit.
20101008_135717.txt
34 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
24 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
24 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
20101009_185553.txt
40 credits at 5000 gold per credit.
36 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
35 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
20 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20101010_031444.txt
15 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20101010_144704.txt
4 credits at 6550 gold per credit.
18 credits at 5750 gold per credit.
20101011_125109.txt
17 credits at 6999 gold per credit.
20101012_134610.txt
16 credits at 6950 gold per credit.
3 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
1 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
15 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20101014_153406.txt
20 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20101016_144101.txt
8 credits at 6699 gold per credit.
6 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
14 credits at 6450 gold per credit.
20 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20101017_130620.txt
12 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
20101018_154431.txt
2 credits at 6200 gold per credit.
464 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
10 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
8 credits at 6550 gold per credit.
20101019_143537.txt
74 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
7 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
7 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
5 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
26 credits at 6400 gold per credit.
20101020_020542.txt
13 credits at 6400 gold per credit.
13 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20101020_224735.txt
25 credits at 6699 gold per credit.
135 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20101025_182123.txt
13 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20101030_215309.txt
44 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20101031_235530.txt
30 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20101101_122007.txt
30 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
30 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20101101_132735.txt
50 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
50 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
50 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20101102_191838.txt
33 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
2 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
1 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
28 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20101103_122802.txt
5 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
7 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
5 credits at 6750 gold per credit.
10 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20101108_141051.txt
286 credits at 7400 gold per credit.
20101109_165841.txt
39 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20101110_121454.txt
10 credits at 6799 gold per credit.
20101114_205313.txt
74 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
22 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20101115_155249.txt
25 credits at 6400 gold per credit.
20101116_163055.txt
11 credits at 6499 gold per credit.
20101116_181025.txt
37 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
100 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20101117_135401.txt
9 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
20101118_130435.txt
2 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
1 credits at 6250 gold per credit.
3 credits at 6400 gold per credit.
23 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
82 credits at 6550 gold per credit.
82 credits at 6550 gold per credit.
20101119_211139.txt
30 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20101120_200115.txt
91 credits at 6850 gold per credit.
20101122_151904.txt
37 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20101129_152655.txt
5 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20101201_025119.txt
30 credits at 6400 gold per credit.
20101201_140109.txt
23 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20101203_155600.txt
75 credits at 5750 gold per credit.
100 credits at 5800 gold per credit.
60 credits at 5800 gold per credit.
85 credits at 6260 gold per credit.
85 credits at 6260 gold per credit.
85 credits at 6260 gold per credit.
85 credits at 6260 gold per credit.
69 credits at 6260 gold per credit.
20101211_181619.txt
29 credits at 6499 gold per credit.
16 credits at 6649 gold per credit.

CODE

20110102_194633.txt
14 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20110106_163905.txt
52 credits at 6200 gold per credit.
20110114_112544.txt
18 credits at 5800 gold per credit.
20110115_100216.txt
100 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
70 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
20110118_133401.txt
41 credits at 6300 gold per credit.
22 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20110124_205909.txt
24 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
20110128_183613.txt
11 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20110129_182205.txt
4 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20110201_135705.txt
12 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
4 credits at 6050 gold per credit.
20110201_190441.txt
48 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
48 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
48 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
48 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
48 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20110212_173833.txt
37 credits at 5800 gold per credit.
20110213_143919.txt
5 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20110214_134429.txt
95 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20110214_222150.txt
29 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
50 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20110216_200240.txt
30 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
14 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
12 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
12 credits at 6190 gold per credit.
20110217_005434.txt
17 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
20110217_021923.txt
63 credits at 6194 gold per credit.
20110217_031117.txt
63 credits at 6194 gold per credit.
20110217_041646.txt
100 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
20110217_140237.txt
10 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
10 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
30 credits at 6050 gold per credit.
29 credits at 6050 gold per credit.
110 credits at 5750 gold per credit.
87 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
87 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
55 credits at 5750 gold per credit.
22 credits at 5500 gold per credit.
87 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
87 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20110218_165437.txt
42 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
15 credits at 6050 gold per credit.
20110219_140255.txt
39 credits at 5950 gold per credit.
20 credits at 5999 gold per credit.
20110220_131412.txt
27 credits at 5900 gold per credit.
20110220_191328.txt
20 credits at 5950 gold per credit.
20110221_084615.txt
27 credits at 5800 gold per credit.
6 credits at 5500 gold per credit.
20110223_020835.txt
70 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20110224_202256.txt
16 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
16 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
5 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
5 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
20110225_150500.txt
13 credits at 6200 gold per credit.
20110225_201703.txt
24 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
20110228_001515.txt
29 credits at 6299 gold per credit.
14 credits at 6299 gold per credit.
20110301_131403.txt
137 credits at 6200 gold per credit.
20110301_202411.txt
13 credits at 6199 gold per credit.
20110301_231208.txt
14 credits at 6099 gold per credit.
20110302_180742.txt
27 credits at 5997 gold per credit.
20110302_211659.txt
10 credits at 5899 gold per credit.
20110303_003413.txt
33 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
50 credits at 6099 gold per credit.
50 credits at 6099 gold per credit.
20110303_210820.txt
5 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
95 credits at 6189 gold per credit.
20110304_200100.txt
2 credits at 5999 gold per credit.
20110306_153157.txt
18 credits at 6094 gold per credit.
20110306_180508.txt
102 credits at 6099 gold per credit.
20110309_185631.txt
2 credits at 5500 gold per credit.
31 credits at 6049 gold per credit.
31 credits at 6049 gold per credit.
20110315_155048.txt
4 credits at 6138 gold per credit.
20110315_191757.txt
2 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
1 credits at 6100 gold per credit.
20110316_194001.txt
100 credits at 5900 gold per credit.
2 credits at 6139 gold per credit.
20110317_114707.txt
5 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20110322_211925.txt
4 credits at 6297 gold per credit.
20110325_002105.txt
148 credits at 6299 gold per credit.
20110325_213225.txt
43 credits at 6000 gold per credit.
20 credits at 6299 gold per credit.
18 credits at 6298 gold per credit.
20110326_092654.txt
68 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20110326_192630.txt
43 credits at 6444 gold per credit.
43 credits at 6444 gold per credit.
43 credits at 6444 gold per credit.
4 credits at 6439 gold per credit.
20110327_222703.txt
10 credits at 6395 gold per credit.
20110329_002415.txt
8 credits at 6849 gold per credit.
20110330_121328.txt
117 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
20110330_190812.txt
12 credits at 5500 gold per credit.
10 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20110330_211436.txt
18 credits at 6899 gold per credit.
20110330_235033.txt
18 credits at 6849 gold per credit.
20110331_024153.txt
12 credits at 6749 gold per credit.
20110401_215255.txt
100 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
20110402_144201.txt
5 credits at 7350 gold per credit.
1 credits at 6998 gold per credit.
25 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
25 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
1 credits at 6998 gold per credit.
20110402_190445.txt
20 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
18 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
18 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
18 credits at 6900 gold per credit.
50 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
32 credits at 6799 gold per credit.
20110403_132452.txt
23 credits at 6747 gold per credit.
20110403_205201.txt
23 credits at 6747 gold per credit.
20110404_140331.txt
12 credits at 5700 gold per credit.
20110404_210231.txt
14 credits at 6699 gold per credit.
20110404_234938.txt
4 credits at 6748 gold per credit.
4 credits at 6748 gold per credit.
20110405_152545.txt
4 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
4 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20110406_060728.txt
19 credits at 7097 gold per credit.
20110406_180137.txt
30 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20110407_233214.txt
36 credits at 6750 gold per credit.
36 credits at 6750 gold per credit.
20110408_031854.txt
40 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20110408_215343.txt
55 credits at 6890 gold per credit.
20110409_164211.txt
15 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
15 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
10 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
10 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20110410_011201.txt
5 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
20110411_160840.txt
16 credits at 7200 gold per credit.
20110412_164330.txt
39 credits at 7299 gold per credit.
39 credits at 7299 gold per credit.
36 credits at 7250 gold per credit.
20110413_002624.txt
39 credits at 7199 gold per credit.
20110413_232110.txt
50 credits at 7399 gold per credit.
50 credits at 7399 gold per credit.
50 credits at 7399 gold per credit.
50 credits at 7399 gold per credit.
20110414_220923.txt
38 credits at 7498 gold per credit.
20110415_203106.txt
5 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
16 credits at 7295 gold per credit.
20110416_132655.txt
50 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
30 credits at 7100 gold per credit.
43 credits at 7099 gold per credit.
20110417_110300.txt
56 credits at 7099 gold per credit.
56 credits at 7099 gold per credit.
56 credits at 7099 gold per credit.
20110417_155403.txt
56 credits at 7099 gold per credit.
20110418_002203.txt
10 credits at 7497 gold per credit.
27 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
20110418_110814.txt
7 credits at 7495 gold per credit.
20110418_214855.txt
10 credits at 7250 gold per credit.
20110419_153355.txt
20 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
20 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
45 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
20110421_001424.txt
10 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
20110421_132213.txt
38 credits at 6998 gold per credit.
20110424_174917.txt
55 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20110425_185707.txt
15 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20110426_174751.txt
99 credits at 7099 gold per credit.
2 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
2 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
25 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
24 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
1 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
8 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20110427_194533.txt
28 credits at 6899 gold per credit.
20110427_200038.txt
28 credits at 6899 gold per credit.
20110427_224207.txt
28 credits at 6899 gold per credit.
25 credits at 6899 gold per credit.
100 credits at 6600 gold per credit.
20110428_235550.txt
20 credits at 6899 gold per credit.
20110430_011609.txt
69 credits at 6896 gold per credit.
20110430_222702.txt
4 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
4 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20110502_143332.txt
103 credits at 7099 gold per credit.
17 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
20110502_211644.txt
19 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
19 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
20110503_114644.txt
90 credits at 7099 gold per credit.
20110503_174319.txt
90 credits at 7099 gold per credit.
87 credits at 7099 gold per credit.
85 credits at 7099 gold per credit.
7 credits at 6500 gold per credit.
20110504_213659.txt
3 credits at 7150 gold per credit.
20110507_162304.txt
26 credits at 7198 gold per credit.
20110508_001351.txt
23 credits at 7198 gold per credit.
19 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
20110511_014918.txt
84 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
20110512_201958.txt
1 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
20110514_122207.txt
10 credits at 7197 gold per credit.
20110514_162150.txt
100 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
100 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
100 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
99 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
6 credits at 6700 gold per credit.
91 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
20110515_210617.txt
1 credits at 7100 gold per credit.
16 credits at 7224 gold per credit.
20110516_152159.txt
11 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
24 credits at 6800 gold per credit.
10 credits at 7199 gold per credit.
20110516_223200.txt
5 credits at 7199 gold per credit.
20110517_185615.txt
9 credits at 7090 gold per credit.
20110518_170451.txt
3 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
20110518_183431.txt
173 credits at 7200 gold per credit.
20110519_005313.txt
150 credits at 7200 gold per credit.
20110519_160257.txt
50 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
20110519_232010.txt
4 credits at 7199 gold per credit.
20110520_023712.txt
37 credits at 7199 gold per credit.
20110520_112529.txt
13 credits at 7199 gold per credit.
20110523_110534.txt
384 credits at 7225 gold per credit.
20110523_200356.txt
1 credits at 7150 gold per credit.
11 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
20110524_010711.txt
15 credits at 7150 gold per credit.
20110524_165821.txt
345 credits at 7225 gold per credit.
20110525_232205.txt
207 credits at 7225 gold per credit.
20110526_220820.txt
157 credits at 7225 gold per credit.
157 credits at 7225 gold per credit.
20110527_173017.txt
146 credits at 7225 gold per credit.
20110527_232607.txt
124 credits at 7225 gold per credit.
20110529_025831.txt
10 credits at 7500 gold per credit.
20110529_143145.txt
69 credits at 7998 gold per credit.
20110530_011427.txt
45 credits at 8499 gold per credit.
45 credits at 8499 gold per credit.
20110530_134437.txt
44 credits at 8000 gold per credit.
20110530_201751.txt
70 credits at 7400 gold per credit.
20110530_230702.txt
107 credits at 8000 gold per credit.
20110531_003150.txt
92 credits at 8000 gold per credit.
25 credits at 7500 gold per credit.
20110531_183617.txt
12 credits at 7750 gold per credit.
20110601_115724.txt
34 credits at 8000 gold per credit.
20110601_161645.txt
1 credits at 7500 gold per credit.
10 credits at 7650 gold per credit.
20110602_030137.txt
155 credits at 8399 gold per credit.
20110602_233903.txt
1 credits at 8000 gold per credit.
21 credits at 8000 gold per credit.
20110603_142434.txt
2 credits at 8200 gold per credit.
20110606_221005.txt
27 credits at 8449 gold per credit.
25 credits at 7900 gold per credit.
20110608_230124.txt
3 credits at 8300 gold per credit.
20110611_212839.txt
23 credits at 7950 gold per credit.
23 credits at 7950 gold per credit.
23 credits at 7950 gold per credit.
20110613_090719.txt
93 credits at 7500 gold per credit.
20110613_223156.txt
45 credits at 7500 gold per credit.
4 credits at 7450 gold per credit.
20110614_104244.txt
15 credits at 7350 gold per credit.
88 credits at 7400 gold per credit.
20110614_181735.txt
21 credits at 7300 gold per credit.
20110701_003742.txt
11 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
20110702_132456.txt
15 credits at 7450 gold per credit.
20110706_220719.txt
7 credits at 8042 gold per credit.
20110708_151350.txt
10 credits at 7800 gold per credit.
20110710_231246.txt
15 credits at 8000 gold per credit.
20110711_185811.txt
5 credits at 7750 gold per credit.
20110712_124054.txt
15 credits at 8095 gold per credit.
20110712_155723.txt
25 credits at 7500 gold per credit.
20110713_102705.txt
50 credits at 7200 gold per credit.
50 credits at 7200 gold per credit.
31 credits at 8000 gold per credit.
20110713_212320.txt
28 credits at 8000 gold per credit.
3 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
20 credits at 7999 gold per credit.
40 credits at 7800 gold per credit.
39 credits at 7800 gold per credit.
20110714_121146.txt
30 credits at 7650 gold per credit.
20110715_122911.txt
15 credits at 7900 gold per credit.
20110721_001552.txt
51 credits at 8149 gold per credit.
20110725_072343.txt
3 credits at 8000 gold per credit.
20110727_204752.txt
9 credits at 8495 gold per credit.
20110728_180812.txt
121 credits at 8400 gold per credit.
121 credits at 8400 gold per credit.
120 credits at 8400 gold per credit.
20110801_000009.txt
5 credits at 9495 gold per credit.
10 credits at 8750 gold per credit.
20110801_104739.txt
19 credits at 9000 gold per credit.
20110802_021202.txt
7 credits at 8900 gold per credit.
7 credits at 8900 gold per credit.
3 credits at 8800 gold per credit.
3 credits at 8800 gold per credit.
20110802_144724.txt
12 credits at 9000 gold per credit.
20110803_215244.txt
1 credits at 9400 gold per credit.
30 credits at 7500 gold per credit.
20110804_122523.txt
25 credits at 8500 gold per credit.
22 credits at 9450 gold per credit.
20110805_161605.txt
35 credits at 9399 gold per credit.
20110806_162634.txt
11 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
11 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
11 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
6 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
6 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
6 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
6 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
25 credits at 8900 gold per credit.
25 credits at 8900 gold per credit.
25 credits at 8900 gold per credit.
25 credits at 8900 gold per credit.
25 credits at 8900 gold per credit.
25 credits at 8900 gold per credit.
25 credits at 8900 gold per credit.
25 credits at 8900 gold per credit.
25 credits at 8900 gold per credit.
20110807_005438.txt
97 credits at 9347 gold per credit.
20110808_190946.txt
1 credits at 9800 gold per credit.
1 credits at 9800 gold per credit.
30 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
30 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
300 credits at 15000 gold per credit.
300 credits at 15000 gold per credit.
200 credits at 15000 gold per credit.
200 credits at 15000 gold per credit.
200 credits at 15000 gold per credit.
200 credits at 15000 gold per credit.
200 credits at 15000 gold per credit.
100 credits at 12000 gold per credit.
86 credits at 12000 gold per credit.
86 credits at 12000 gold per credit.
86 credits at 12000 gold per credit.
20110808_225353.txt
71 credits at 11999 gold per credit.
4 credits at 10500 gold per credit.
4 credits at 10500 gold per credit.
2 credits at 9900 gold per credit.
20110809_104523.txt
9 credits at 9995 gold per credit.
100 credits at 9994 gold per credit.
20110810_004331.txt
89 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
20110810_102339.txt
360 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
338 credits at 9400 gold per credit.
20110810_190821.txt
10 credits at 9300 gold per credit.
20110811_131327.txt
213 credits at 9400 gold per credit.
183 credits at 9400 gold per credit.
183 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
156 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
165 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
165 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
165 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
20110814_123029.txt
6 credits at 9993 gold per credit.
20110814_193839.txt
5 credits at 9800 gold per credit.
20110815_102754.txt
65 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
65 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
20110815_234625.txt
49 credits at 9993 gold per credit.
20110816_102453.txt
98 credits at 10999 gold per credit.
98 credits at 10999 gold per credit.
20110816_194802.txt
2 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
2 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
21 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
20 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
20110817_100403.txt
16 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
20110817_183213.txt
12 credits at 10998 gold per credit.
1 credits at 7000 gold per credit.
11 credits at 10998 gold per credit.
11 credits at 10998 gold per credit.
20110818_101142.txt
60 credits at 10999 gold per credit.
60 credits at 10999 gold per credit.
20110819_165813.txt
3 credits at 10499 gold per credit.
22 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
20110820_230001.txt
60 credits at 10999 gold per credit.
60 credits at 10999 gold per credit.
20110821_103632.txt
3 credits at 10499 gold per credit.
10 credits at 10100 gold per credit.
10 credits at 10100 gold per credit.
20110822_085028.txt
22 credits at 10998 gold per credit.
20110823_141833.txt
21 credits at 10998 gold per credit.
21 credits at 10998 gold per credit.
5 credits at 10200 gold per credit.
20110823_222854.txt
5 credits at 10200 gold per credit.
20110824_103849.txt
3 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
27 credits at 10998 gold per credit.
27 credits at 10998 gold per credit.
27 credits at 10998 gold per credit.
20110825_101323.txt
127 credits at 12800 gold per credit.
127 credits at 12800 gold per credit.
127 credits at 12800 gold per credit.
2 credits at 12699 gold per credit.
2 credits at 12699 gold per credit.
50 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
50 credits at 9000 gold per credit.
50 credits at 9000 gold per credit.
50 credits at 9000 gold per credit.
50 credits at 9000 gold per credit.
49 credits at 9000 gold per credit.
49 credits at 9000 gold per credit.
49 credits at 9000 gold per credit.
49 credits at 9000 gold per credit.
39 credits at 9000 gold per credit.
10 credits at 10500 gold per credit.
10 credits at 10500 gold per credit.
10 credits at 10500 gold per credit.
10 credits at 10500 gold per credit.
85 credits at 12000 gold per credit.
20110829_100321.txt
14 credits at 11000 gold per credit.
14 credits at 11000 gold per credit.
7 credits at 12000 gold per credit.
3 credits at 12000 gold per credit.
20110830_092526.txt
24 credits at 11999 gold per credit.
12 credits at 25000 gold per credit.
12 credits at 25000 gold per credit.
12 credits at 25000 gold per credit.
12 credits at 25000 gold per credit.
12 credits at 25000 gold per credit.
5 credits at 20000 gold per credit.
5 credits at 20000 gold per credit.
5 credits at 20000 gold per credit.
1 credits at 18999 gold per credit.
20 credits at 17950 gold per credit.
1 credits at 12000 gold per credit.
21 credits at 12000 gold per credit.
1 credits at 11000 gold per credit.
10 credits at 11900 gold per credit.
20110831_083836.txt
5 credits at 10500 gold per credit.
20110831_111328.txt
1 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
20110831_232626.txt
9 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
20110901_024659.txt
31 credits at 9900 gold per credit.
20110901_094120.txt
14 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
20110901_132023.txt
14 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
14 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
14 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
49 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
14 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
14 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
14 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
49 credits at 9900 gold per credit.
21 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
21 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
21 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
21 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
21 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
21 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
21 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
21 credits at 9500 gold per credit.
34 credits at 9900 gold per credit.
34 credits at 9900 gold per credit.
20110902_103415.txt
14 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
20110902_215100.txt
10 credits at 11500 gold per credit.
10 credits at 11500 gold per credit.
20110903_121902.txt
21 credits at 15000 gold per credit.
20110904_225000.txt
33 credits at 10700 gold per credit.
17 credits at 11900 gold per credit.
20110905_101709.txt
1 credits at 11899 gold per credit.
1 credits at 11899 gold per credit.
18 credits at 9800 gold per credit.
1 credits at 11500 gold per credit.
20110906_100721.txt
7 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
4 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
4 credits at 11000 gold per credit.
11 credits at 9800 gold per credit.
20110907_114026.txt
21 credits at 11500 gold per credit.
18 credits at 11500 gold per credit.
1 credits at 11000 gold per credit.
20110908_101024.txt
46 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
46 credits at 12500 gold per credit.
20110908_184846.txt
22 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
20110909_121819.txt
1 credits at 12000 gold per credit.
12 credits at 9999 gold per credit.
9 credits at 10300 gold per credit.
9 credits at 10000 gold per credit.
20110912_155426.txt
18 credits at 10498 gold per credit.
128 credits at 13000 gold per credit.
10 credits at 9700 gold per credit.
20110913_125250.txt
30 credits at 12900 gold per credit.
30 credits at 12900 gold per credit.
30 credits at 12900 gold per credit.
20110913_173539.txt
30 credits at 12900 gold per credit.
15 credits at 11499 gold per credit.
15 credits at 11499 gold per credit.
17 credits at 17949 gold per credit.
17 credits at 17949 gold per credit.
17 credits at 17949 gold per credit.
17 credits at 17949 gold per credit.
17 credits at 17949 gold per credit.
17 credits at 17949 gold per credit.
17 credits at 17949 gold per credit.
17 credits at 12000 gold per credit.
7 credits at 12000 gold per credit.
7 credits at 12000 gold per credit.
7 credits at 12000 gold per credit.
20110914_120920.txt
50 credits at 13500 gold per credit.
45 credits at 13500 gold per credit.
10 credits at 12500 gold per credit.
1 credits at 12500 gold per credit.
20110915_011300.txt
1 credits at 13499 gold per credit.
24 credits at 12500 gold per credit.
24 credits at 12500 gold per credit.
Ytran2011-09-15 01:57:10
QUOTE (PhantasmalKiller @ Sep 14 2011, 08:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Gold drops over time HAVE NOT CHANGED IN ANY APPRECIABLE EXTENT. Only the size of individual drops has increased... in near perfect proportion with the time/effort/expenditure required to kill them.

My experience has not mirrored this, especially giving the addition of denizen damage weaknesses, new damage types and damageshift.
Unknown2011-09-15 02:03:14
Nevermind. Misread Ssaliss's information and drew totally incorrect conclusions. Carry on.
Unknown2011-09-15 14:18:12
But there are factors affecting the supply as well. The following things have happened that probably have a major supply impact.

1) The introduction of Curios in 6/13/2011, as a new gold sink.
2) The Wheel which related to that was very very generous if you bought a crate or cart, as well as the dropping of coins from the Ice Devils.
3) Artifact Packages in 6/1/2011 - 7/31/2011, which reduced purchases of standard credits because of the discount for specific artifacts and allowed purchasing of casks and crates.
4) August Lesson Packages, which may have further reduced standard credit packages.

I'm pretty sure this is a supply problem that won't be cured by a gold sink. There's now a good promotion for standard credits but I think a lot of people may have paid extra for Artifact packages, which if you bought a cask or crate package you'd get a lot of spins which could also give you bound/unbound credits (The wheel was very generous), so it's possible people with cash "doubled down" in the summer, tapping them out for a few months.

The price spikes seem to coincide with these promotions.

Until more cash for standard unbound credits happens, I think they are going to be in short supply, and will likely be sold at a higher rate.
Hiriako2011-09-17 02:15:08
QUOTE (Rathan @ Sep 14 2011, 09:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Another promo like the IRE-wide "alter ego" credit sale might help ameliorate this, by encouraging people to start alts, though one could argue over just how effective that technique really was.


Hard to say. I've got ~240 credits to give to an alt when I make them. I just haven't decided what I wish to create. I also have to wonder if those work across the different games...hm.
Ytran2011-09-17 02:22:50
QUOTE (Hiriako @ Sep 16 2011, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I also have to wonder if those work across the different games...hm.

They do, iirc. You choose which game/character they go to from the webpage where you disburse them.
Eventru2011-09-17 04:55:13
QUOTE (Rainydays @ Sep 14 2011, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I hate "last word" posts, since you're done, so I'll just recap and clarify my own long windedness:

-Prices are high for several reasons, many of which are natural to the market. My strident harping on speculation addresses elements that I feel aren't natural to the system.

-I do not feel a gold sinks are the best solution. At best, I am of the opinion that they'd have a short term effect, they may well be entirely ineffectual, and at worst, they may backfire or even raise balance concerns all of their own. I would rather not see content added to the game brought about largely for an attempt at engineering the credit market.

-Even if I am fully right, and speculators are a problem, and they are stopped utterly, the market will still not return to the days of yore. But the price would be more "pure" for lack of a better word. Any remaining true inequities should be addressed with tweaks to the existing system without doing the economic equivalent of fishing with depth charges.


I doubt a goldsink will do much. It'll clear out some of the existing bloat, but it will do nothing to address the credit market.

A long series of gold sinks would be required, that reach into the upper echelons of players. The first few would need to eat through the bloat, then the rest would need to not only show there's a need for more gold, but that they wouldn't have an infinite supply, either (or a need for immediate demand). Either way, it'd "force" those who want it to buy credits, to sell for gold, to buy said 'goldsink'.

This of course requires there be a 'bloat' - which I'm not saying there is (or is not).

I think the reality is that the income increased, but prices on existing goldsinks didn't. Unlike a true market, prices didn't fluctuate on things like manse costs, etc.

I suspect the curios were a great gold sink, but it might've of ran the other way when rubbing produced tokens (flooding the have-nots with product (ie credits), and dropping demand).

I think what will actually help address it is a combination of new expenditures, both gold and credits. Credit expenditures will help get rid of whatever credit 'bloat' there may be, and gold expenditures will help clear out the millions of gold people claim to have sitting around. Of course, anything done would probably be a temporary drain, since nothing requires re-purchasing (except goods like craftings/alchemy/etc), and I can't imagine what else could be added.
Enyalida2011-09-17 06:12:18
Yep, I think that directly increasing the value of gold, by creating things that are of worth (not really necessity) that can be bought for gold. I'm on a bunch of gold I have nothing interesting to spend on, because I have zero interest in a manse that only I will see and have full up clanslots.
Unknown2011-09-17 22:56:12
QUOTE
I suspect the curios were a great gold sink, but it might've of ran the other way when rubbing produced tokens (flooding the have-nots with product (ie credits), and dropping demand).


The coin rewards were very generous. I purchased several crates, a few with IC gold and several with OOC packages. Wheel spins from coins allowed you to gain levels, gave both free (unbound) and bound credits, sometimes gave you artifacts you could trade in, and gave some gold rewards, etc. We probably ended up with a glut of extra credits. I think I might have gained over 400 credits or so from the wheel, as well as going from around level 43 to level 78! Plus, because the rewards were so generous, I spent a little more money then which I can't spend now.

If my situation was the norm for others, I can see why we had a huge price spike.
Unknown2011-09-17 23:25:04
Eventru: One of the founding principles of the dual currency system is that, when one currency reaches an imbalance with the other that is problematic, the value of the currency must be modified. According to said founding principles, the way to do so is to... bah, go look at my post in the Credit Market thread, with Matt Mihaly's quote in it concerning the whole bit. I've brought it up enough times in regard to this issue that it doesn't need to go here too.

Short and skinny: The fundamental method for correcting currency imbalance? Release more good stuff that requires the devalued currency. More credit sinks will only make it worse. More gold sinks will make it better. This is possibly the most central principle of dual currency virtual economics. It's not an issue of supply. It's an issue of demand.


Edit: Possible suggestion - Given that Lusty does not have stat boosting artifacts, perhaps have Jeremiah offer tonics that grant an unweighted stat boost in a single stat for a period of time. If priced appropriately it would provide a heavy and continual gold sink.

Another possible suggestion - Create a transporter module for aetherships, as well as 'transaether transport orbs', which must be purchased for gold. One orb, a single one-way transport between two empath synched ships in aetherspace.
Lendren2011-09-22 17:25:05
The real problem with screwing with commodity prices to change the gold market is that, while many things depend on commodities, many other things don't. The disparity in this is already ridiculously askew and has gotten more and more so over the years. Every time commodities are used to "fix" the economy it just breaks it more. The most visible example of this is how the non-commodity tradeskills are so much better than the commodity ones, and have gotten more so every year, with the trend never going the other way. But that's only one example. There are many others: like those guilds who require commodities versus those who don't, for instance. Commodities are a terrible, terrible way to adjust the economy.
Eventru2011-09-22 17:34:52
QUOTE (PhantasmalKiller @ Sep 17 2011, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Eventru: One of the founding principles of the dual currency system is that, when one currency reaches an imbalance with the other that is problematic, the value of the currency must be modified. According to said founding principles, the way to do so is to... bah, go look at my post in the Credit Market thread, with Matt Mihaly's quote in it concerning the whole bit. I've brought it up enough times in regard to this issue that it doesn't need to go here too.


I missed this bit.

I'm aware, however part of the argument that I've noticed is rooted in the belief that the Wheel put 'too many free (bound) credits' into the market (broad definition of market).
Enyalida2011-09-22 19:23:54
While I think the Wheel didn't help, that's not at all what I'd base an argument off the nature of the market on. I'd point out that there are definite uses for credits, and close to no uses for gold (except to buy credits). What do people use their money from trades (and commodities) to buy? If they already have the cartels they want (which you by no means have to buy yourself/alone) and either don't want a manse or already have one and aren't interested in more rooms, the only thing left is to buy credits with gold. IMO, gold is becoming a sub-currency, it has little worth on its own and that worth is ever-dwindling.