How can you say you agree with me and the go to agree with him and say it's pointless? Why is it pointless to defend things, those are the exact challenges I'm talking about. Those little 'wins' are exactly what starts building morale. ' Yeah, we gave them a good run that time and they had to bring more people. Great work guys!.' You try to improve each time. 'Nice we killed Viynain, and Shuyin that time' (We've literally said that before). You look for small goals and work for bigger ones. I have a Seren alt, I've been around during big raids, in fact, I've helped kill Gloms during those raids (not anything recently), and I've seen the nay-sayers and seen the detrimental effect. You're the leader of Serenwilde and probably the most influential people and you can affect the morale. Who cares if people bring back more if you win a battle. Harp on that afterwards. Do you know how many domoths Glom has gotten it's ass kicked for the majority of it, and one good run and little victory changes the whole thing and we come out with the domoth? It's a challenge, if the it's pointless, then don't defend, but don't shoot down those that want to try. You know what's worse than being repeatedly curbstomped? Being told off by your own org members for trying. I've been there and done that and seen it. If anything, help the motivated ones, ride their positive energy.

Alllllllll of that said, I feel that the biggest problem for me with Lusty right now is a general lack of communication between Admins and Players. I feel that there are things that a large proportion of players may feel are problems don't register on the admin radar, even though envoys bring them up as issues. "We do not find this to be necessary." I don't think that the envoy system really solves this issue either, there isn't any dialogue between admins and players, just players laying out what they see as problems with the skills and systems of lusternia and getting a thumbs up or thumbs down, no real communication in the sense of the old Envoy/admin meet. I'm not sure what to do to solve this, but there are continuing sentiments (that are quite old) that there are certain things the admins want done or ways that they want things to do that simply don't jive with the reality of balance, and that balance/fairness/funness will always be sacrificed at the altar of those artistic directions.

In example, reading events posts, I REALLY love a lot of the plot interplay and the epic story unfolding as we play along. I get absolutely no sense of that playing through events. Events are generally just a huge drag, testing not courage or wits, but patience as we wait for the next part of the event to be handed to us, because having solved the riddle and arrived at the proper conclusion, the next part simply hasn't been unlocked yet. I don't feel a sense of interaction. I'd love to try and make some druidly conclusion on the sky and how to fix it, but I won't because when another related event rolls around, it'll just be overruled. I have no idea how to fix this, events are hard enough to code that being able to fully interact with all the players involved approaches the impossible, but I think that having a more visible presence as admins and gods in talking with us and understanding us mere semi- and demi-mortals would help some.

EDIT: @Sidd: See, that sort of thing woudl just piss me off. If I'm having a bad day and someone comes and pats my back and says "Cheer up, it's not raining today, that's good, right?" I'd slap them. Probably more then once. It feels totally fake to try and artificially pump up a routing defeat by saying "Look, we managed to kill two... out of their ten.". When we actually do make progress, I'm fine with pointing it out and praising people for working together, but generally, we take a step forward and are blasted backwards four.

I have to echo Sidd here and say that shooting yourself in the foot with negativity doesn't help anyone, especially yourself. I also have to especially disagree with this statement:



Morale is so easy to build up with small victories which can, in turn, inspire bigger ones. If the attention however is wallowing in misery and apathy instead though, then indeed, you can't expect things to change since you're essentially saying you don't want them to change.

After all, if you wanted them to change, you'd be taking the steps to make it so rather than sitting back and saying 'Why try? It's pointless.'

Why? If you only killed 1 before and managed to kill 2 the next time, then you did better. That's progress, it's completely different than saying 'it's not raining.' I know for damn sure saying that 'hey we killed two out of their ten' is better than saying 'screw it all, we got raped, lets stop and never try again and you're silly for thinking we should.'

All of this. This time last year, Celest was getting regularly raided by Mag, we had no domoths. We had to regularly call in Glom for help and had no capable melders, I didn't even have a system nor knew WTF I was doing in combat, but after a while we started fighting back, getting small victories and relying less on our alliance.

I think the problem is, a raid happens, we scramble together, and for once, we actually manage to fight people off. Half way through saying, "Wow, good job everyone, that's the kind of spirit we need," the group that got pushed back gets pissy, comes back with three times as many people, and obliterates everyone. That's what Enyalida is talking about. You are claiming that small victories build morale--she is counterclaiming that we don't get any victories, only bigger losses.

EDIT: I am of course claiming that both sides see their side of the issue and can't meet in the middle because neither side truthfully remembers being the other side (they claim to, but really don't).

No good deed goes unpunished. More often than not, a minor win in some skirmish is rewarded with a full raid of our territories. The winning side needs to keep the losing side down pretty much in order to maintain their status. It's difficult to gain morale and very easy to lose it.

???

Leading is pretty overrated, yeah.

I think the real point of this thread is what isn't being said, or even considered, at all. Every post works from the same premise, that the only issue here is who happens to be winning or losing the fight, and why, and how that feels. And that's perfectly all right: that's what Lusternia is.

But when this thread and those posting in it speculate about why people who are unhappy are unhappy, it doesn't get the right answer. It's not even not asking the right question. It doesn't even recognize that there is another question. But that's okay, too. That's also what Lusternia is.

Unfortunately, saying this won't make the slightest difference for many people: they'll remain convinced it is all about who's winning or losing, because what else could it be? That's all it would be for them. But the misfortune is small because it really doesn't matter if they don't get it. It wouldn't change anything if they did. This is what Lusternia is. This is what it is, it seems, intended to be. And that's great, because apparently, there's a market for that. Good for everyone who's getting what they came for.

None of this really works in practice. We win a fight, you can bet we'll lose two more as soon as the big fighters log in and hear about it. It's -very- easy for someone on the winning side to say that we can do better, but there is really only so much we can do. If Shuyin and co had never moved from Serenwilde to Glomdoring, I find it very hard to see how Glomdoring would have ever picked itself up, despite what people like Sidd have tried to say. Sure, things might have improved a bit for them, but at the end of the day, Glomdoring would still have been what it was.

Instead of making a long forum post about why you think everyone else is struggling, how about you look at yourself and ask why you think the other side don't bother trying anymore. It's not because we lost one or two fights. It is because we've lost one or two hundred and there is nothing indicating that anything we do can change it.

You know what Lusternia has been experiencing a distinct lack of lately?

Hamsters.

Someone ought to remedy this.

I could not agree more. Purple hamsters of chaos need to go back for sale.

Nooooooooooooo(cut for length)ooooooooo!

Edit:
On-topic, there is a lot to be said for leadership that looks for the bright side and focuses on the positive. This is as true for RL morale as in-game.

Edit 2: Hamster hunt? !

I merely don't have the time nor patience to work for Demigod. You may enjoy working for those things but many people don't. To me trying to get to Demigod is more of a chore than anything. I would happily support Lusternia by purchasing things like that and I don't really think it hurts the game in general.



I never took out a loan for my new car. I paid for it all on the day I bought it.

I'd post a troll face, but I'd rather direct you to my new avatar.

What is the other question? Your post can't sway anyone if you don't explain yourself. Is it "What is Lusternia intended to be?"?

There's really nothing more to say, Thank you for proving my point Serenwilde, You may continue to whine and cry and complain, I hope you find enjoyment in that aspect of the game


Edit @Xyas, while you may be able to afford to buy a brand new car upfront, I was not. And unless you happen to be the kid of some rich parents with a trust fund or something along those lines where you were just handed the money, I'm willing to bet you put a decent amount of effort into earning the money to buy said car upfront, whether it be schooling to get the job you have or what not. The point remains the same, you worked to get to the point where you had enough money to buy said car.

Pointing out that everyone is unhappy and that the best way to stop being unhappy is by stopping being unhappy isn't really much of a point, and saying "See, you are all being unhappy, therefore you are unhappy and will be unhappy" isn't much proof. Saying to someone depressed "Hey look, I've been there, and you should just suck it up, look how great and happy I am after sucking it up." is likely to have them shoot you before shooting themselves.

Maybe it resonated with someone who would rather improve themselves and maybe possibly lead their said Org to success rather than the loudest whiners who just want to convince themselves they aren't wrong. If it did, then I think it's a success, even just one person.