Losers of village revolts can perform quests though to improve their situation. This isn't the case in aether combat, but I feel that aether combat is on a different plane altogether due to peoples inexperiences with fighting in aetherspace (and a lack of artied out battleships as the dynamic demands).

And no Enyalida, I don't consider that getting hit by a first domoth absolve warrants enough evidence for removing the dynamic altogether - I'm not counting on the other side being weak all the time. They're bound to improve and they're free to exesize their powers however they want to when they do, otherwise it'd be pretty boring if we went all the way and removed all kinds of offensive acts orgs can take agaisnt each other. The opposite domoths dynamic, implemented in the ways of glomdorings absolute domination, already is helping to alleviate a complete takeover/ally assisting domoths/etc, and it's not like seren-mag-halli are always on the down number of domothers - just look at the gaudi one where it was 3 gaudis vs 6+ and a shrine. It's variable, and imho, it's fine, if everyone participated in assisting.

Egh, while many of these posts are combat related, why not some others? Trades for instance, for example artisan could be changed a little bit so that we do not need to rely on people getting manses to make gold. For example being able to sell things such as rugs without needing to construct them on the ground, or being able to sell ready made kegs? Or be able to sell tapestries, folded up, in shops?

Or giving the nature's guard ability to those high enough in herbalism?

or fixing repair in jewelry, or melting, so that it is practical to actually repair the jewelry instead of melting and recreating for no gold cost?

Forging could use some more love as well, it feels like it's a far cry from it's earlier days a few years back - but maybe that is due to more forgers being around, reduction in demand, and the player base being spread apart from the earlier 3 guilds, 2 communes 1 city.

RoseGlasses in tinkering could be buffed, compared to magicrown in spellcraft (25% reduced mana cost, 100 charges versus tinkering's reduced ego use)

It is pretty hard to kill someone with poisoned cooking? Would it be practical that people won't feel the poison for a short time, while they are savoring the taste from that cake?

Or with lorecraft, especially with the new damage types, create potions that would give slight resistance to them?

Or organizational tattoos?

I'm putting this with trades, but trade artifacts. Some are worth every credit spent, while others aren't. For example, comparing the Forging Mallet to the Pantograph. Or the pantograph itself to the tailor's shears?

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And for achievements? Can more be added, or tweaked a bit? For example, jumping from 1000 kills to 10k, can we have a 5k in between? Or for completing a personal history, you would get an achievement for that - which would mean more people would do it, strengthening their rp?

And for influencing. While gold gain has been buffed for hunters, it remains rather static with influencers. Is it possible to increase the amount of esteem gained by a little bit? Or introduce more influencing zones for higher tier influencers? It is the safer bet, sure, but if with a mask of esteemed beauty, and being able to complete 2-3 needles in an hour, you are making (lets say at 9k per needle) 27k for those 3 needles, while hunters are able to make double is it? Or triple that amount in the same amount of time.

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Or for glamours skills, it is underscored by the skills that ecology brings to the table? Why not remove or improve things such as nature or statue so that they would be used more? Perhaps allow you to look around, instead of just hearing things? Or moving lightspray down from fabled, as it is almost like faerie fire, but for 1 power, which is an apprentice skill in nature? Or introduce more afflictions to the glamours skillset, instead of just the 6 that are in colour spray? Or let glamours' illusoryself have a percentage of the user's armor?

Egh, some more attention would be great to the trades and neutral skills, instead of just focusing on the combatant side of Lusternia.

Just for review, post-momentum monks have seen a variety of necessary nerfs and bug fixes, including:

Penalize out of form kicks
Remove momentum gain on raze
General ka adjustment
Increase moment loss for regen affs
Eliminate regen affs for out of form actions
Introduce power cost for momentum boost
Reduce overall monk speed
Reduce prone damage bonus

Not sure if monks are approaching balance (which is a much talked about, but very imaginary destination), but no doubt a few more "scalpel" sized nerfs are necessary. The problem is twofold: first, narrowly defining the problem; secondly, proposing scalpel-sized solutions. I've heard two intelligent comments: monks might gain access to top-tier afflictions too quickly (which is a momentum issue), AND top-tier afflictions are too easy to stick and/or maintain.

IF the problem is momentum in nature, then perhaps it would make sense for a systematic review of momentum values and levels. I've always silently imagined moving from a 5, +1 tier to something greater. WHAT IF we increased levels of momentum and decreased the variety of ka costs per level. Our current system is



WHAT ABOUT



Monks are already balanced around these general ka values, so Envoys wouldn't need to spend the next year+ re-balancing ka costs. Losing the 350 ka designation would reduce the numbers of forms from five down to four (somewhat simplifying monk combat by decreasing number of forms). Momentum gain and loss actions would need to be adjusted individually to conform to the new system. The overall the effect would be to delay access to top-tier afflictions. This systematic approach would probably need the blessing of a special report. Don't see a change of this scale happening in the month to month reports. You could imagine several other variations on the same theme:



Let's further parse the problem, separating regen afflictions from general momentum gain. IF the problem is solely regen affs, then another solution would be warranted. A number of small steps have already been taken to balance the cost/benefit ratio for in-form regen afflictions. I don't see further increasing ka cost or momentum loss as an effective solution. You know, I've outwardly opposed Malarious' idea to introduce a power cost on regen affs for Nekotai skills, but I am starting to warm on the idea as a means to control regen affs across all monk guilds.

This change would have several implications. Endlessly looping regen aff loops would be eliminated. Using boosted forms to stick multiple regen affs would be greatly diminished. Using the lunge mod to guarantee sticking a regen aff would be very costly. BUT, most of all, a power cost to regen affs would be nearly mutually exclusive with an Acrobatics Hyperactive strategy. A special report would need to individually examine every regen aff across all monk guilds. Obviously a Pecked Eyes aff shouldn't have the same cost as Tendon. Affs that prone might have a higher power cost, where affs that require a setup (through either a prior affliction or through grapple ender) might have a decreased cost.

Again, credit to Malarious on this idea.

I wouldn't go about introducing BOTH solutions simultaneously. EITHER report is too large for Envoy process alone. Interested to hear some fair criticisms of a monk-wide momentum OR regen aff adjustment. Have fun with this one! And best of luck to the Admins, the Forums, and ultimately the UberEnvoy to identify and address any remaining monk OP'ness in a way that pleases everyone.

OK really fast,

You are all discussing Slippery Slope, the system where as you win it becomes easier to do so. The more domoths you hold the better "your" race becomes, etc etc. The opposite of this is perpetual comeback, most card games try to avoid slippery slope because once you know it is a losing game there is no reason to continue. What you seem to be asking about Donovain is a comeback system, something along the lines of like the more domoths you hold the stronger the mobs are, or something which limits a mobs ties to the domoths. I do not know if this would be a good idea but I understand the concern.

Jan I think monks are a mixed bag at this point. Several people here have said monks are fine, just "better than warriors", which is a statement of warriors more than monks. We have taken alot of changes and most of the time I hear complaints is after I kill someone or they decide they cannot kill me. If we want to examine monks I would ask about another thread as this could get alot more complex than simple Problem > Solution, specially when several things likely are not problems.

As an aside, I will be making the list/report to carry as we go, it will not be in a codeblock to help it be quotable. Please try not to comment all of it at once though or there will be ALOT of cross fired comments to reply to people.

EDIT: The format proposed would be a large mess in the event of some instances where the problem can be seen from more than one angle, thus adjusting what to do, so we will use paragraphs to state problem and solution.

I a taking a break, but wanted to address Falcon real fast.

We have specifically stated this is not all combat and trade skills and such will be examined. We are also, however, waiting for clarification on scope. Can we cover "neutral skills" or will that be considered an envoy job? Dreamweaving and druidry the same way. Yada yada. Like I said, major issues will vary by the kind of player, tradesmen would obviously have an interest in their trades!

fair enough, thought i emphasized on artisan too much, heh.

edit: Limit the maximum members squads can have, and allow squad leaders be grouped underneath an "admiral" just like the aethercraft skill armada would do. Splits up the combatants to an extent, forces a cross team synergy, you still have the commanding officer giving directions to all of the groups, but you don't have a large group entering, following one man or woman and his/her lieutenant. This would change large team fights for the better, I think - and would separate fights without breaking the squad yet still allow the huge group versus group fights.

You can't sell kegs, actually. A keg in a shop will sell only its contents, not the keg itself.

Oh well, from a shop yes. It's not like bookbinding though where you have to wait for that specific person to show up to make a book. You can have kegs on stock.

Limiting squad size wouldn't have much effect, most combat stuff is via combat clan anyways. Even if combat was squad oriented, I don't think that smaller squads would actually end up doing much different, it would just be harder to communicate when you are all in one room smacking away at eachother.

This will be a list where possible

To reply to one of these please just note the topic then your answer so it is easier to adjust for. If I have to read huge pages I may miss something.

The report will be in the next post so it is easier to comment, and I will edit out comments as people fill in. Anything in italics is a comment.

Did not consider adjusting momentum levels as this would likely overhaul monk combat heavily, even being trapped on the same momentum twice would be devastating and having to change targets often would undo alot of work.

Did not include influence as that was adjusted specifically to be less gold because it was less risk. Best example is kephera, hitting 6 is dangerous specially with guards, influence has no afflictions and is admittedly easier.

Does end game need a review to give people more to do?

Be aware I went back over every post and reread it, so I see your edited versions, not the originals.

Estarra the bottom lists things we are not sure of if they fit "in scope" so we could use your decision here, or even a "we will consider it".

Shrine
Problem:
The overarching problem is that shrines are too influential in combat.

• 1) Shrines are too fast to set up, not even requiring full sanctification to enable powers.
• 2) Invasion mobs are rather strong and in many cases have proven the ability to fully turn the tide of a fight that is otherwise lost.
• 3) They effect areas and not just their location.
• 4) Gravity is too influential.
• 5) Shrine powers are far too cheap

Solution:
The solution will depend on the problem that is believed to be the real problem or problems as it may be.

• 1) Require full sanctification, I do not believe requiring a delay would justify their level of effect, as you can always shrine ahead of time.
• 2) Lower the level of invasion mobs and/or prevent large clots from being called into any given room.
• 3) Make shrines hit only rooms of their own influence.
• 4) Move gravity to another shrine such as shield to weaken war shrines impact and prevent the use of gravity with other powers (trade distort/wrath/invasion for gravity).
• 5) Increase costs of powers.

Please narrow down the issue, I have alot of issues up and would like a concensus on which to actually list as the issue(s).

Order Wars
Problem:
The mechanic is a good addition, but the limitations on it prevent it from being used. Both sides must accept and why would a losing Order accept a fight they do not expect to win?

Solution:
I am looking for answers here.

Godrealms
Problem:
Estarra has stated this falls under Divines RP. The only issue that sounds like it would be within the scope of the report is to adjust the wandering mob code to try to prevent such heavy clotting.

Solution:
Adjust the wandering mob code to enable larger realms to be easier to raid. Perhaps

Village Revolts
Problem:
Due to village feelings revolts can be extremely short term. In some cases you cannot actually get a group to the village before it is over.

Solution:
Adjust how things work. Either make villages take more points than a full round and village feelings gives a flat bonus at start of village. OR make villages take more points than a full round and have feelings give you a bonus for each mob.

Warrior
Problem:
This needs further clarification. Warriors do not perform "up to par" in all cases, this needs adjustment to bring them in line with other classes or at least to eachothers specs.

Solution:
Answers here vary. Adjust how armour/wounding works. Increase base hits. Add bonus chance to hit your target area if target is prone in some way a warrior can deliver.

Need this narrowed down.

Domoth/Slippery Slope
Problem:
Domoths currently have a select number of issues to address. The more domoths you control the easier it is to take more due to the bonuss you can give your "side". Additionally, absolving currently means it is easy for a side to maintain control by waiting for their "peak" time to absolve.

Solution:
Adjust things to make it harder to take more domoths if you already control one, looking for specifics here. Absolving I need specifics as well.

Specific solutions please

Raiding
Problem:
Some planes are far too hard to defend or far too easy due to discretionaries, mobs, and/or layout.

Solution:
Adjust planar layouts to assist in defense. Wandering will help restrict the clots of mobs, and try to bring mobs more in tune with eachother, some are very powerful (ladies/daughters) others are weak (angels/demons). Equalize the value of the discretionaries in terms of their effect.

Defending
Problem:
It is very demoralizing to die so often trying to defend your plane. To encourage people to continue we want to make this more desirable.

Solution:
Slightly reduce experience loss for defenders, give a bonus to experience gained when slaying enemies of the location. This would make it not as bad when you die and perferably very noticable when you defend properly.

Affinity
Problem:
Affinity has two major issues that are worth considering at this time.

• 1) Affinity gives large orders a bonus for no real reason (citizenship) which makes large orders able to get more essence and punishes orgs for having multiple active divine instead of one central God.
• 2) Affinity pushes people away from RP in some cases. I could feel Eventru is the best divine to be a part of ever but I am heavily punished if for any reason I decide to say join Hallifax, mechanically. This hurts my Divine to not be from the city, and greatly reduces my value when I try to serve through essence.

Solution:

• 1) Remove the automatic gain from being a citizen OR make it require a minimum offering so inactive and barely active people do not count toward this.
• 2) Reduce the penalties from affinity or simply make affinity give bonuss without the penalties.

Monks
Problem:
If there a true problem here or a somewhat perceived one? We have done quite a few reductions in effect although we are examining some other changes such as adding power costs and standardizing regen penalties. We would Happily take the chance to address monk concerns in this report if deemed needed.

Solution:
This depends on the problems. For regen affs I think we should either have a more set penalty (with respect to the afflictions effect as well as its place in the guilds combat) or at least a cost to offset it and put it more on par with how warrior afflictions tend to function.

The Envoy System
Problem:
Envoys tend to take shots in the dark as to whether something will go over well in any form. Often leading to rejections that could have been avoided by being clearer, confirming first, or similar.

Solution:
Allow Envoys to request an audience with a subject divine, who would the be notified of such requests. No idea who combat god is (can still request sior I imagine). Iosai or Roark for code related questions. Estarra for questions of if something is believed possible and flavour type things that play into RP, aka designer questions. Any could be requested to ask about their opinions or to check if solutions/problems are clear enough. GODREQUEST or something?

This one is open to thoughts from others of course. I think this would be helpful in the productivity of envoys myself.

Trades
Problem:
Needed. Place holder. May just make a new topic if this is allowed for changes. But as of yet no problems given cannot be envoyed to my knowledge.

Solution:
Need the problems.

Thoughts please, I saw artisans being able to sell kegs requested, any others enough to warrant this as a report and not just an envoy slot?

Lag
Problem:
Do most people have alot of lag within the last 2-4 weeks or is this a select population?

Solution:
Depends if its a real issue, if so... optimize code I guess.

Aetherflares
Problem:
Same as villages, can be too fast.

Solution:
Make it take longer or maybe let ground have more of an impact.

Racial
Problem:
Some races are still considerably bad.

Solution:
This would take awhile to work with and probably too complicated to put in this summary report.

DMP
Problem:
With the ability to easily tune damage type and new damage types in general we need to consider evaluating adding resistances where needed now as well as perhaps toning down some aspects of tuning.

Solution:
A review of where to add/adjust DMP and perhaps reduce % of a damage type. Make tuning styled skills capped in how far in a direction they can do to help reduce their impact on PvP.

Unsure if inside scope


Druids
Problem:
They are largely useless outside of a meld, and inside a meld they sometimes feel crippled. Feelings are mixed on this as they often are. Is there a problem with Hartstone at least?

Solution:
Waiting on clarification of problem

Dreamweaving
Problem:
The issues here are willpower costs, attrition, and uselessness outside of demesne.

Solution:
Lower willpower costs, perhaps also allowing multiple motes be made at once as similar skills have been changed. Make sleep attrition somehow useful, as while the person DOES constantly pass out this lasts under a tenth of a second in many cases. Usefulness would require a little more review and looking into.

Needs opinions. I only talked to one dreamweaver to get specifics, it was believed most of this was envoy things which were not listed here. If admin wish we can add flavour skills and such to it though if allowed. Estarra can you give us a yay or nay on changing a little here?

Choke
Problem:
Is there a problem and if so what, we revisit choke alot.

Solution:
Pending opinions.

Barriers to Entry
Problem:
We are one of the hardest to enter combat with early.

Solution:
Solutions needed.

Solutions please

Some of the discretionary powers are plain useless, I'm looking at the Wiccan one specifically here.

Have to go for a little bit, will let you know when I am back (probably replying or reposting.

Nexus Surge (Wiccan discretionary) is definitely not useless. It's a buff to damage done by Daughters/Ladies. For useless discretionaries, I'm looking more at Warriors' and Monks', which affect organization guards (which are only at the nexus).

This process is sure to prove to be thoroughly amusing - far more than I think we realized it would be. Certainly, more than I thought it would be.

I must say, the jockeying began far sooner than I suspected - individuals more or less acting as though they'd already won, everyone's decided what the scope will be, and so forth.

I have this fierce curiosity about what would come if we sat quietly and waited, though I've a suspicion such can be found in the Malarious Report thread already (since this thread more or less reads the same, with the subject only slightly shifted).

I'll gladly jump out and say things like Order Affinity, Godrealms and Wanderer code likely aren't going to change. Wanderer code is purely random (just how things fall - it's literally akin to if random(12) = 1 then move north, if random(12) = 2 then move south, and so forth, if I do so recall - the only option would be to intentionally weight it to fall in a particular direction). Affinity is something I know we will not budge on - the passive gain is a pittance (comparatively, one active order member gives me 0.00001% of the average god's essence. It gives closer to .000004% of the highest essence-holding gods), and the loss is intentionally crippling for out-of-org members, and such a restriction won't go anywhere.

Read: Eventru is not a non-Celest god. Fain is not a non-Managora god. And so forth. Individual instances can occur, but they will come at a cost.

I think it's better to start talking about things NOW instead of waiting until some sort of deadline is set, regardless of who wins. I don't think anyone is necessarily indicating that their say is THE say either... If something ends up being outside 'the scope' then it's not like we've actually wasted our time if everyone comes to some sort of consensus and we can use other means to push it.

Because there are some gods that are deeply tied to an org doesn't necessitate they all have to be. Perhaps some sort of god by god choice, to get the passive benefit at the cost of the drain for foreigners of their pantheon nation, or receive neither. I make no bones about it, I don't like forcing gods/people to either align religiously with their pantheon or face censure if the government of that nation doesn't care either way. It might be in the concept of Celest or Magnagora (don't quote me) to do so, but it doesn't seem like something everyone would want to enforce. If anything, can the log message be changed? I really don't see how nationality effects spirituality.

The wandering seems to favor northeast corners of areas. I think part of what people are referring to is also just making them check for movement faster so they move around more.

Just to make a quick comment: back when Elostian was neutral (oh gawd, how I miss neutral Elostian ), anyone could be in his Order - it was I think the only actual circumvention of Celest's "non-association with Magnagorans" rules, if you could even call them that. There were obvious and understandable restrictions on what we were allowed to talk about in Order chat, such as sensitive security-related matters or similar, but otherwise it was pretty free and open and I loved it as a player and my character loved it too. I even remember there being a chat with Leiliadhe about "beautifying her inner worm" which resulted in a comment about putting a little pink bow on hers, and Denust even has a journal entry where he calls Iytha "terminally paranoid."

I wish we could have a neutral Divine again.

Certainly - it's not even entirely in Eventru or Fain's character. It's actually entirely within both their characters, I suspect, to order their order to 'infest' new organizations, to take control of them, then bring them under their control.

It's unreasonable to expect gods to ICly adhere to an OOC mandate - roles are roles, characters are characters. Instead, we were given a binding mechanic that gave said characters a reason to hold certain opinions.

It's not pleasant, but it's one of those 'needed to be done' matters that I'd put money on won't be up for discussion

Eh? It's unreasonable to expect gods to respect an OOC mandate. Sooo you must take penalties for having RP'd people from other nations, unless you align with the mandate that orders/gods should be monolithic in relation to nation that had no IC introduction and only a really sketchy IC explanation? That's contradictory. It's been hashed over more then once, but it's one of those things that players simply didn't see as a problem, much less one they needed to be penalized for to 'fix'. If you're willing to come out and agree on this (that it's not really desirable and doesn't make too much sense), I'm willing to bet you aren't alone.

EDIT: IF there were characters, god or semigod, that felt that orders were becoming too spread, why wasn't it resolved IC? Even for the more sneaky orders, it wouldn't be too hard to engineer as an admin some sort of scare that would prompt them to become more... strategic and sparing in who they allow in from outside their trusted and aligned nation. No one would have to know.