None of the ideas are actually completely off the table, but I'm leaning towards no there too.

From what I've gathered, the main issue in groups with choke really is the lack of warning and the unreliability of separation moves to save your buddy. The current idea addresses both.

Choke chasing, while annoying, is already pretty difficult to manage, given the window of time the Night user gets to chase the victim (1.5s). Report 311, dated Jan 2010, addresses this facet of choke and was dealt with appropriately.

I like Shuyin's plan for choke (quoted at the bottom of the thread for the sake of simplicity).

There are a few very strong reasons why the solution is a good one.

• First and foremost, it directly addresses group combat, and has its greatest impact there. That is the problem, and so the solution paired to it as closely as possible.
  
• One of the big issues with choke is that the defenders in groups feel helpless counteract it. It just happens, and then you have to deal with it. This solution gives the defenders the information they need, and the time that is necessary to react to it in a group.
  
• While a cure would be satisfying to many people, say, the focus spirit cure for example, think more strategically, think deeper and long term. If we put in a focus spirit cure, then it will impact 1v1. If it impacts 1v1, then the SD envoys will cry foul. If the SD envoys cry foul, they will seek a way to enact some form of compensation for 1v1. If the cure is focus spirit, then the SD envoys will, at some point, ask for yet more new abilities, this time geared towards stopping a target from focusing spirit. If they are eventually successful, then they will certainly try to find a way to use this focus spirit blocking ability in groups. If this happens, then people will complain that the cure is useless, because it either winds up toading you, or it gets blocked and you wind up choked. And we'll be right back here where we started. (Yes, this seems like a slippery slope, but it's pretty straight forward when you think about it.)
  
• It rewards smart playing and preparation. People will need to carry salt, have the right things highlighted, have the right aliases to act on the information. The side using choke can raze, the other side may gust, and otherwise try to shield or force one party or another out of the room.
  
• While some obnoxious situations still can exist, ganks are still ganks. Pfifth is obnoxious in any gank, and while choke is still a big middle finger move in that situation, now at least there is more time and information, and options, available to deal with it.
  
• It doesn't destroy choke. So it doesn't require a re-working of SDs/Night. It is fairly simple, as befits the report. Lex parsimoniae.
  

Sojiro:

Currently trying for the simple approach now, given Ciaran's post:

-Add a delay between casting choke and the effect taking place, 4s, where it will be obvious who the caster and victim are. It will cost 0p to start, but it will take 3p upon success. Separation between caster and victim here will break the effect as with the current choke. Have it check for shield when it is cast and when it takes effect, a shield at any point will block it.

Ex: The shadows begin whirling around Alacardael and Akui, 4s later, CHOKE MESSAGE HERE.

-Reduce choke balance to a flat, unmodifiable 3-3.5s (currently 4-5s).

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This idea attempts to maintain the idea that choke is fine 1v1 / small groups but groups is where the issue lies, given that the 'defenders' do not have much time to prepare since choke is pretty much instant and can happen in any time. This solution addresses that by adding a 4s delay that people can highlight and prepare for so they can get ready to gust/headbutt/mountkick/blah their friend away. Furthermore, checking for shield at both ticks means that sprinkling salt around your buddy also becomes a viable way to protect them from said choke.

I also have an idea that anyone choking would take out the bonds effect in the room as well, but I'm not totally sold on whether it's needed still.

Let me know what you guys think.

RE: Choke chasing. I'm just weirded out that it continues outside of shadows. I'm a-ok with chasing choke as long as you chase into shadowed rooms, or quickly drop shadows in that room after chasing there.

Rainydays:

I like Shuyin's plan for choke (quoted at the bottom of the thread for the sake of simplicity).

There are a few very strong reasons why the solution is a good one.

• First and foremost, it directly addresses group combat, and has its greatest impact there. That is the problem, and so the solution paired to it as closely as possible.
  
• One of the big issues with choke is that the defenders in groups feel helpless counteract it. It just happens, and then you have to deal with it. This solution gives the defenders the information they need, and the time that is necessary to react to it in a group.
  
• While a cure would be satisfying to many people, say, the focus spirit cure for example, think more strategically, think deeper and long term. If we put in a focus spirit cure, then it will impact 1v1. If it impacts 1v1, then the SD envoys will cry foul. If the SD envoys cry foul, they will seek a way to enact some form of compensation for 1v1. If the cure is focus spirit, then the SD envoys will, at some point, ask for yet more new abilities, this time geared towards stopping a target from focusing spirit. If they are eventually successful, then they will certainly try to find a way to use this focus spirit blocking ability in groups. If this happens, then people will complain that the cure is useless, because it either winds up toading you, or it gets blocked and you wind up choked. And we'll be right back here where we started. (Yes, this seems like a slippery slope, but it's pretty straight forward when you think about it.)
  
• It rewards smart playing and preparation. People will need to carry salt, have the right things highlighted, have the right aliases to act on the information. The side using choke can raze, the other side may gust, and otherwise try to shield or force one party or another out of the room.
  
• While some obnoxious situations still can exist, ganks are still ganks. Pfifth is obnoxious in any gank, and while choke is still a big middle finger move in that situation, now at least there is more time and information, and options, available to deal with it.
  
• It doesn't destroy choke. So it doesn't require a re-working of SDs/Night. It is fairly simple, as befits the report. Lex parsimoniae.
  

I agree with you for the most part, but in all honesty, everything you just said already currently applies to choke.

Defenders -already- see a line that shows who choked and who is being choked, that's all the information you need to counteract it. The only real difference between current choke and this proposal, is that the target has time to react -while not being choked-. Under current choke, he can still react, by hitting that tumble alias etc, it just takes a second to go into effect. I just don't buy that the other team members take sooo long to switch targets to the choker or target to gust/attack/save whatever that the target is dead before they can.

If anything current choke rewards smart playing and preparation more. It's relatively obvious whose going to be choked and whose going to be doing the choking. Big impact people are going to be choked first, melders, monks, aeoners, etc. will be primary targets. It's not too hard to prepare a highlight and a group call to announce that so and so was choked by big bad Glom and then switch targets to the choker and/or save your buddy.

I agree it doesn't destroy choke, I'm all for it because if anything, it's just another rod thrown in the spokes of our Glomdoring bike that we can overcome. I just don't see any real big difference between the current form and the proposed form other than the target having 4 secs to react unchoked with yet even one more option to stop it (shielding). Every other option is currently available and possible to execute in the current form.

As we talked about oocly in game, I disagree only in that I feel the proposed version makes the counters more generally available to an extent that is meaningful.

I really don't have any interest in doing the hair-splitting dance here with you though, since, at the end of the day, we'd be arguing over how we each see a solution that we're both ok with. Therefore, I'll cop out with a "I acknowledge your point and respectfully disagree, but as we ultimately reach the same conclusion regarding this solution, the disagreement is moot."

Bump, pretty sold on the current suggestion still, so I'm gonna call it a done deal for this thread. Go contribute on the other stuff.

I want to wrap up all the other threads that aren't Druids/Warriors/Monks within the week. Hopefully.

No rush though!