Hmm. Maybe making Gedulah/Green cure Choke would prevent the problem (in addition to instafade). That way there is a viable way to get rid of it at the beginning of combat, while also allowing it to stick on afflicted opponents.

I don't think green/gedulah is really appropriate and I might be wrong, but that means things like allheale would cure it too...

Don't think so. Allheale only cures poison affs as far as I know...

Nope. Cures the same things.

>_>

Well... I feel that we do still need a valid way to cure Choke when escape is impossible (or just very difficult), and I don't think Focus Spirit is a good plan when SDs have a manakill...

Sidd:

Would both the caster and the target be able to focus spirit to cure it, and would focusing cure both of them or just one of them?

I would assume focus spiriting by either will cure it. Maybe there could be an exception for choke where it will always cure if needed.

If maestoso does block focus, which I can't remember, then there is nothing much different from how things are now. You could also just move the bard.

The reason why I picked focus spirit was because unlike aeon, choke costs 3p and requires shadows, so the effect should roughly be in measure with the cost. I actually don't have any issue with suggesting a different (easier) cure, but I feel that choke's cost should lower in return.

Whatever the solution is, I'd like the skills name to be changed. Choke will die and something else will be in it's place, and the momentum of whining will be able to stop.

This post is directed partly to the admin.

Adherring to The Vision is all very well and good, especially when The Vision is something that will make Lusternia a better game in the long run. However, this special report means that the admin are willing to hear out problems from the player base, and MAYBE implement solutions if those problems are deemed valid. While a solution that goes against The Vision will obviously be given the lowest consideration, it should not be entirely discounted in this discussion either, if the admin are truly serious about fixing problems.

It is for this reason that I think we should also consider suggestions that seem unlikely to be implemented, just for the sake of discussion if nothing else. If a problem has existed long enough to be a major focus of this special report, then it certainly warrants special attention, and if The Vision is going to obstructively prevent the fixing of the problem, then I think the admin need to rethink their priorities on keeping The Vision and striking a compromise to solve, or at least alleviate the problem, if nothing else.

Of course, I have said the above with no solid suggestion of that sort yet, but I just wanted to bring this up and remind everyone reading this that if you have a suggestion, but it doesn't seem in-line with The Vision, there is no harm bringing it up for consideration, and also not to just dismiss such suggestions as they come up.

Malarious:

- (Target) Choke becomes contagious. Attacking someone choked makes you choked if in the same room as the shadows latch onto you.

I was going to suggest something very similar to this, but I see Malarious has already suggested it. I'm wondering why there wasn't more discussion on this? Am I missing something?

It might be a pain code-wise, but I think this retains choke's strength for 1v1 AND lessens its debilitating effects in groups, since there is now a considerable cost for the attacking group if they attempt to all pile on the target.

Ushaara:

I was going to suggest something very similar to this, but I see Malarious has already suggested it. I'm wondering why there wasn't more discussion on this? Am I missing something?

It might be a pain code-wise, but I think this retains choke's strength for 1v1 AND lessens its debilitating effects in groups, since there is now a considerable cost for the attacking group if they attempt to all pile on the target.

to easy to abuse, just get your own melder choked and poof, everyone else is choked, which just leads to the room being choked, which then we might as well just go with room-choke

I still think choke is powerful enough that you can't really modify the effects of the ability itself while still adhering to "The Vision" and remain balanced without introducing a whole new set of problems. It would either need to be completely redone (discarding the vision and potentially a lot of extra work changing other SD skills), or more what is more likely to actually be approved by admin - given additional prerequisites/setup needed before use.

Sidd:


to easy to abuse, just get your own melder choked and poof, everyone else is choked, which just leads to the room being choked, which then we might as well just go with room-choke

You Gloms are crafty! :lol: Hrm, maybe making all shadowbound fae automatically target the choked person might be sufficient deterrant? (though would need something for EG chokers...)

Since one of the major complaints of choke seems to be

Person A chokes you
You're now instantly boned

What about keeping choke mechanically the same in what it does, but it only comes into effect for both parties as soon as the choker recovers eq? So, Person A chokes you, you get a you're about to be choked message, then 3-4s later as soon as their eq comes back you're choked. Then generally, the person about to be choked has time to react (which can be mitigated if the choker does some work before hand, so choke would take a bit more skill), in a group you gain 3-4s of unaeoned curing, and since it'd happen when the choker gets eq back it won't have a massive effect on their offence (as soon as you get eq back you can start doing your thing in choke, you're just losing the passive hits while the 3-4s of eq come back). Probably reduce the power cost or something to compensate, as I could see many people being able to avoid choke entirely, but I suppose faster eq races would have an easier time.

Person A chokes you.
Person B you.
Profit?

Yeah, but the entire point of choke in groups is you choke the target, and people jump on the choked person. The 3-4s of unchoked time lets you cure at full functionality against whatever IS hindering you. Say if you're vined and paralyzed, you can writhe AND focus body at the same time, instead of one or the other. Furthermore, this means that they SHOULD hinder you when they try to choke you rather than just immediately proceeding to a kill.

Most people point out P5th and choke. With the time, you can gust out the choker or the bard while working at curing the hindering at the same time, as opposed to the 1 action per second. Yeah, you might still get choked in the end (but if you couldn't get choked then...why would they even cast choke?), but you have time to react to fix it, even if it just means you can outr a bunch of herbs if you don't do it normally.

Additionally, in a group, it means that they have more time to deal with the choker before you even get choked. I assume from your example you mean a 2v1 gank, in which case you're in trouble immediately, but again you have the time here to try and gust or walk out (assuming it's a p5th gank, if you don't have earwort up you won't get earached so you can gust choker, eat earwort and walk out). In a group, if they see you being choked, not only are you completely fine for the time before choke kicks in because mechanically it hasn't done anything yet (if you are hindered so badly you cannot do anything then the choke is nearly irrelevant and someone should get you out of there anyways), but your group can also get rid of the choker so the choke has literally not done anything other than cost the choker power.

If I missed the point of your post lemme know, but I don't see how that really makes this idea worse? I don't mean that as a jab against you, just trying to figure out where the problem is.

So you want choke to be delayed, you get a warning its starting and it CHOKEs in 4s? This could be a varied bag, gives everyone a warning to move someone so in groups it is alot less useful. also stops walk by chokes, but at the same time it does also impact solo, though slightly. Have it based on people on the room maybe,

I think the big impact here is on the Xv1 ganks. In a group as is now, you already get a message someone is choked and if you move them they're usually fine, this would give more leeway for them to be saved/allow them to save themselves. But in Xv1 ganks where you just get instachoked and die, I think it would give you a much better chance to survive.

The impact on 1v1 (where choke is fine) might be too much since they could just walk out (though there's pidgwidgeon and the barghest and whatnot), but it may just mean they need to hinder you more than before, before choking. If there's a SD to comment maybe they could give some insight?

You aren't instantly boned - a lot of Crown people seem to tumble away very quickly. Wobou uses his instatumble (which is 100% impossible to follow in choke) to run around and complete negate choke. You can also simply walk out (which is also 100% impossible to follow - because the delay on choke to wear off is 1s, and choke delay is 1s - so you can see how easy it is to cancel it). That of course changes when the numbers get uneven (thus unfair) and when pfith is equasion (but unfair is unfair, making it fair won't work).

Serens some weeks ago had pretty good communication as to who was choked so the victim or the choker would get gusted/barged/stag-thrown out, but that didn't seem to be communicated with their other allies, nor did other allies communicate it to them. It's all about teamwork, and when it happened, it was pretty easy to mitigate choke - and with the pits severely nerfed, I'd say it's even easier now. Unless you of course walk in solo into a group of enemies on your own, but then hey, Crucify would have the same killer effect.

@Quorre: To go along with the winning strategy that's for some reason or the other is being poorly utilized, a solution would be to have Choke yell something area-wide - something like Occultist's Enlightenment making the person scream world-wide. The area-wide yell would give all allies enough attention to come and save the person.

This doesn't address even group firepower when Choke is used, but since everyone sees it room-wide, there is absolutely no reason people can't take action on it, or even capitalize on it and kill the Choker so he doesn't Choke anymore.

I do think that choke can be mitigated as long as you're on the ball, I do like this yell idea, or some sort of HEY SAVE THAT DUDE thing.

Vadi... The problem people have with all of this is that in a sudden death situation for two parties (the choker and chokee), if you have foresight and the decision power you are more likely by a huge amount to be the survivor. Your own skills should favor you, but not to the point of juggling a bomb and knowing when it's going off. In single situations or small group situations, it's easy to say that it's escapable. In groups, it fuels uberganking more then any other skill (besides perhaps instapinleg, but that's not a problem with the skill itself).