Unknown2011-10-13 10:00:56
shrines
druids
raid mechanics
org momentum
revolt/aetherflare capture
choke
demigods
druids
raid mechanics
org momentum
revolt/aetherflare capture
choke
demigods
Raeri2011-10-13 10:02:47
My list would be as follows, in this order:
Main:
3. Choke by Akui
7. Druids by PM
10. Demigods by Ssaliss
Rest:
8. Races (not all) by Sylphas - -would be higher but the new race hats is a temporary bandaid
11. Warriors by Rivius
6. Monks by Janalon
4. Org Momentum by Akui
Main:
3. Choke by Akui
7. Druids by PM
10. Demigods by Ssaliss
Rest:
8. Races (not all) by Sylphas - -would be higher but the new race hats is a temporary bandaid
11. Warriors by Rivius
6. Monks by Janalon
4. Org Momentum by Akui
Talan2011-10-13 12:22:12
Top 5:
2. Revolt/Aetherflare Capture Speed -- Revolts in particular are too fast. Flares maybe are, but really often they go fast because they're not being contested at all (same issue in villages, really, only ~12 minutes is more tolerable than ~2 minutes). Consider adjustments to both village feelings and the minimum victory threshold in uncontested village. For flares, simply upping the required number of bombards won't do it, unless it's a really dramatic increase - people will just buy more ships - at least Celest and Glom will and others will say it is super unfair that they should have to. Maybe require the colossus to claim. I am not sure.
5. Shrines -- I do not think they need to be changed in essentials or function but I think the powers should cost more god essence and I think the shrine should require the rooms be fully sanctified before powers are activated.
7. Druids -- Is the issue just that tk >> eco? What would be asked for here, a whole new tertiary for just-druids? That would sure be nice, but is it a realistic expectation?
8. Races -- This last revamp seemed to only widen the gap between the good races and the lousy ones. I am curious to see another density graph, if the last attempt did anything besides nudging more human/shadowlord warriors to become aslaran warriors. Maybe a few more merians too.
10. Demigods -- They could use some love. A way to incorporate some of the existing ascendant powers, or lesser versions of them, especially as ephemeral powers. The issue of essence glut has not been resolved.
Alternates:
4. Org Momentum -- This could use some clarification for me. I do not understand how this can be fixed mechanically beyond village feelings, which are addressed elsewhere. Lots are including it on their short lists but I'm not sure what you have in mind. Take away domoth rewards? Power from villages/bubbles? (Actually, yes, we could take away the power from holding the bubbles - the construct is enough reward)
3. Choke -- *sigh* I have the strong feeling that "once and for all" won't apply here either, but sure, let's take another stab at it.
2. Revolt/Aetherflare Capture Speed -- Revolts in particular are too fast. Flares maybe are, but really often they go fast because they're not being contested at all (same issue in villages, really, only ~12 minutes is more tolerable than ~2 minutes). Consider adjustments to both village feelings and the minimum victory threshold in uncontested village. For flares, simply upping the required number of bombards won't do it, unless it's a really dramatic increase - people will just buy more ships - at least Celest and Glom will and others will say it is super unfair that they should have to. Maybe require the colossus to claim. I am not sure.
5. Shrines -- I do not think they need to be changed in essentials or function but I think the powers should cost more god essence and I think the shrine should require the rooms be fully sanctified before powers are activated.
7. Druids -- Is the issue just that tk >> eco? What would be asked for here, a whole new tertiary for just-druids? That would sure be nice, but is it a realistic expectation?
8. Races -- This last revamp seemed to only widen the gap between the good races and the lousy ones. I am curious to see another density graph, if the last attempt did anything besides nudging more human/shadowlord warriors to become aslaran warriors. Maybe a few more merians too.
10. Demigods -- They could use some love. A way to incorporate some of the existing ascendant powers, or lesser versions of them, especially as ephemeral powers. The issue of essence glut has not been resolved.
Alternates:
4. Org Momentum -- This could use some clarification for me. I do not understand how this can be fixed mechanically beyond village feelings, which are addressed elsewhere. Lots are including it on their short lists but I'm not sure what you have in mind. Take away domoth rewards? Power from villages/bubbles? (Actually, yes, we could take away the power from holding the bubbles - the construct is enough reward)
3. Choke -- *sigh* I have the strong feeling that "once and for all" won't apply here either, but sure, let's take another stab at it.
Revan2011-10-13 12:34:49
Choke - Because that's the default
Demigod - It's kind of silly to have Demigod be all awesome for years and years with shouts, zaps, etc... and then the idea for a demigod shop shows up... and all it is is just a way to buy back the powers I previously had... with nothing new or appealing. This needs to be fixed
DMP - Because having only 120 DMP vs. cutting, fire, cold and magic sucks. I need more tankability!
Races - Because looking forlornly at my 1000cr artifact and only desiring to be one or two races out of the myriad of choices available is absolutely depressing.
Demigod - It's kind of silly to have Demigod be all awesome for years and years with shouts, zaps, etc... and then the idea for a demigod shop shows up... and all it is is just a way to buy back the powers I previously had... with nothing new or appealing. This needs to be fixed
DMP - Because having only 120 DMP vs. cutting, fire, cold and magic sucks. I need more tankability!
Races - Because looking forlornly at my 1000cr artifact and only desiring to be one or two races out of the myriad of choices available is absolutely depressing.
Rathan2011-10-13 14:41:04
Talan:
7. Druids -- Is the issue just that tk >> eco? What would be asked for here, a whole new tertiary for just-druids? That would sure be nice, but is it a realistic expectation?
The issue, at least as I see it, is two-fold: First, druids are BUILT around sap, but they were built back when sap meant "we're turning off ALL your automated curing, and you have to manual out of it". Now, sap just means "stop attacking for a few seconds while your system cures you out of it", but druids haven't likewise been empowered to compensate for this. The second issue can be (over)simplified as tk v. eco, but really it's that druid skills, particularly the druid tertiaries, don't come together to form any cohesive strategy. Yes, druid demesnes have powerful afflictions, but for Hartstone at least each of those afflictions is on a different healing balance, so in a matter of seconds you can cure out of the entire thing before the afflictions have had enough time to really mean anything, and in the meantime the druid lacks active offensive skills to use in conjunction with the demesne. Compounded with this is that, unlike mages skills, many of druids' non-demesne skills still have the same environment and/or in-demesne restrictions, so outside of their demesne their role is reduced to point web
4. Org Momentum -- This could use some clarification for me. I do not understand how this can be fixed mechanically beyond village feelings, which are addressed elsewhere. Lots are including it on their short lists but I'm not sure what you have in mind. Take away domoth rewards? Power from villages/bubbles? (Actually, yes, we could take away the power from holding the bubbles - the construct is enough reward)
The biggest example for me is domoth absolve - Only the person who controls the opposing domoth is allowed to create the opportunity to free a domoth, even though they themselves cannot participate in it. This means that if one "side" controls 8 of the 9 domoth, then the other side better pray they are around to upgrade their domoth to crown the MOMENT it comes out of dormancy or it will be absolved while no one is around to defend it, then promptly re-taken by the opponents. I personally also group village influencing (at least under the conquest system) in here, along with a few other mechanics that create a general feeling which I've been picking up from my side that Celaudoring has just won Lusternia.
Lilija2011-10-13 15:18:06
Warriors
Shrines
Specific races (not faeling)
Druids
Dmp
Shrines
Specific races (not faeling)
Druids
Dmp
Turnus2011-10-13 15:59:39
In no particular order.
Revolts/aetherflares speed - I think just adding adding an additional message about the upcoming aetherflare/revolt 5 minutes before it starts could do a lot in making sure there aren't uncontested revolts/flares
demigods - As simple as open up some of the fun toys ascendants get please!
warriors - There was a report asking to increase the chance swings have of hitting the primary bodypart, that could go a long way in helping.
druids - No clue what could help here, but this archetype could use it..
choke - I think focus should be on additional setup in using choke rather than changing the effects.
Revolts/aetherflares speed - I think just adding adding an additional message about the upcoming aetherflare/revolt 5 minutes before it starts could do a lot in making sure there aren't uncontested revolts/flares
demigods - As simple as open up some of the fun toys ascendants get please!
warriors - There was a report asking to increase the chance swings have of hitting the primary bodypart, that could go a long way in helping.
druids - No clue what could help here, but this archetype could use it..
choke - I think focus should be on additional setup in using choke rather than changing the effects.
Unknown2011-10-13 16:10:10
Rathan:
The biggest example for me is domoth absolve - Only the person who controls the opposing domoth is allowed to create the opportunity to free a domoth, even though they themselves cannot participate in it. This means that if one "side" controls 8 of the 9 domoth, then the other side better pray they are around to upgrade their domoth to crown the MOMENT it comes out of dormancy or it will be absolved while no one is around to defend it, then promptly re-taken by the opponents. I personally also group village influencing (at least under the conquest system) in here, along with a few other mechanics that create a general feeling which I've been picking up from my side that Celaudoring has just won Lusternia.
1) You can absolve first and avoid being absolved yourself. Upgrade, keep your domoth out of dormancy. Etc.
2) "Waiting for the other side to lose defenders" has been a strategy since Lusternia began. It's a lame move, but sometimes there's no going around it.
3) Village feelings were actually imposed back when Glomdoring had all but one of the villages. Its aim was to shuffle around village ownership, which it did. Granted, it went to the hands of Glomdoring allies, but hey can't get around player politics.
Rathan2011-10-13 16:30:25
1) You can absolve first and avoid being absolved yourself. Upgrade, keep your domoth out of dormancy. Etc.
ABSOLVING A DOMOTHEOS
=====================
With the exception of the Domotheos of Nature, each Domotheos opposes
another as follows: Chaos opposes Harmony, Beauty opposes Knowledge, War
opposes Justice, and Life opposes Death. The Controller of a Domotheos
can attempt to DOMOTH ABSOLVE
opposing Domotheos. To do so, the power of control of the Domotheos must
be equal to or greater than that of the controller of the opposing
Domotheos.
Like I said before, the problem here is that no, someone who has just obtained a domoth cannot absolve the opponent. Furthermore, you cannot protect yourself from absolution by immediately upgrading, because the domoth goes dormant the moment it is captured, leading to my earlier comment that the person who has recently obtained one must 'pray that they are around to upgrade their domoth the MOMENT it comes out of dormancy.'
The problem here is that once someone is "on top" and has a domoth at crown rank, their alliance is destined to get the opposing domoth because they have almost complete control over when the domoth fights will occur, in addition to having control over when the fights for the actually controlled domoth take place.
2) "Waiting for the other side to lose defenders" has been a strategy since Lusternia began. It's a lame move, but sometimes there's no going around it.
Yes, but the difference in this case is that almost every organization as an ideal time when they have high activity and their opponent has low activity. This is much less true when you are checking if an organization has a period of high activity and their opponent has a period of low activity while someone is capable of challenging a domoth, for the reasons in the above section about which people ultimately control when domoth fights occur.
However, we digress, this discussion should be saved for if/when an org momentum subtopic emerges.
Unknown2011-10-13 16:41:39
Edit: Rathan beat me to it.
Neos2011-10-13 16:42:11
Sojiro:
Suggested Imbalances:
Updated: 10-10-11, 12:30 PM PST
1. Construct Inequality
2. Revolt
More revolts than flares, having the bubble doesn't actually help in capturing, it's all about preparation and resources.
5. Shrines
6. Monks
8. Races (not all)
10. DMP Inequalities
11. Demigods
15. Raid Mechanics
Unknown2011-10-13 17:15:07
Chaos : Xenthos controls the Throne
Time Left : 106 days
Crown : The Incoherent Crown of Chaos
Blessing : The Free Collective Of Glomdoring
Orb : The Warped Orb of Chaos
Blessing : The Ebonguard Guild
Sceptre : The Discordant Rod of Chaos
Blessing : The Faeling Race
Harmony : Thalkros controls the Throne
Time Left : 105 days
Crown : The Luminous Circlet of Concord
Blessing : The Grand Dominion Of Magnagora
Orb : The Radiant Orb of Balance
Blessing : The Geomancers Guild
Sceptre : The Golden Sceptre of Harmony
Blessing : The Human Race
Both are at the same level. Thalkros can absolve Xenthos just as much as Xenthos can absolve Thalkros. So no, you can absolve even if you've just obtained the Domoth (right after dormancy fades, anyway).
Morbo2011-10-13 18:50:04
1. Shrines. These seem to be the single most disbalancing force in domoths and raid. In small groups, invasion can group up and completely obliterate a smaller group on their own, with larger groups gravity severly hinders their ability to operate and for those unfamiliar with the area to regroup (which is almost everything because enemy territory and bubbles aren't memorized by most people)
2. Choke. Having spoken to people on the side of choke, and on the other side I believe this is a major player in the most powerful alliance staying how they are. Celestians have said that they won't consider changing primarily because they don't want to deal with choke. I will say it is used a lot less now but the threat of it is practically like the real world threat of nuclear weapons.
3. Revolt/Aetherflare capture speed. Make the game less fun, make it too easy for orgs to maintain their territories. Hallifax for instance went to delport with more people than Celest, and managed to get some influences in the first round but still managed to lose the revolt in the first round.
4. Construct Inequality. Gaudiguch and Hallifax just have terrible constructs compared to glomdoring/magnagora/celest. Serenwilde I think is pretty bad too but I can't recall their constructs at this time. I believe every org should have one utility construct that is just clearly useful (stat increases, sipping increases, etc) with effects that persist all the time instead of only like 5 minutes every 24 hours.
5. Org Momentum. I believe this is an issue, but I believe the things I've listed higher will take care of this but I listed it anyways because not everyone has the same list as me
6. DMP inequalities. Magic is too weak, psychic/poison are too strong only because of the lack of DMP available to those types and the excess available for magic.
7. Warriors. Lets face it, with the exclusion of Ixion who is a superior fighter and strategic thinker, and also has essentially every artifact, warriors are unyieldy, inconsistent, and ineffective.
2. Choke. Having spoken to people on the side of choke, and on the other side I believe this is a major player in the most powerful alliance staying how they are. Celestians have said that they won't consider changing primarily because they don't want to deal with choke. I will say it is used a lot less now but the threat of it is practically like the real world threat of nuclear weapons.
3. Revolt/Aetherflare capture speed. Make the game less fun, make it too easy for orgs to maintain their territories. Hallifax for instance went to delport with more people than Celest, and managed to get some influences in the first round but still managed to lose the revolt in the first round.
4. Construct Inequality. Gaudiguch and Hallifax just have terrible constructs compared to glomdoring/magnagora/celest. Serenwilde I think is pretty bad too but I can't recall their constructs at this time. I believe every org should have one utility construct that is just clearly useful (stat increases, sipping increases, etc) with effects that persist all the time instead of only like 5 minutes every 24 hours.
5. Org Momentum. I believe this is an issue, but I believe the things I've listed higher will take care of this but I listed it anyways because not everyone has the same list as me
6. DMP inequalities. Magic is too weak, psychic/poison are too strong only because of the lack of DMP available to those types and the excess available for magic.
7. Warriors. Lets face it, with the exclusion of Ixion who is a superior fighter and strategic thinker, and also has essentially every artifact, warriors are unyieldy, inconsistent, and ineffective.
Lawliet2011-10-13 21:23:37
I don't really have much to say about the reasoning that hasn't been said before.
-Constructs
-Revolt/aetherflare capture speed
-Choke
-Monks
-Races - I'll stop complaining when I see more Dwarves, Orclach, Merian and Mugwumps around.
-Demigods - Hesitant to put this here as I'm hardly one of the Demigods with a huge essence sink and I'm sure non-demis are tired of any and all complaining, but you work really hard for it and then it gets stale, with nothing to do with it. Feels kinda lame.
-Devalued Gold - Because, really, have you LOOKED at the credit market lately? Egads.
-Constructs
-Revolt/aetherflare capture speed
-Choke
-Monks
-Races - I'll stop complaining when I see more Dwarves, Orclach, Merian and Mugwumps around.
-Demigods - Hesitant to put this here as I'm hardly one of the Demigods with a huge essence sink and I'm sure non-demis are tired of any and all complaining, but you work really hard for it and then it gets stale, with nothing to do with it. Feels kinda lame.
-Devalued Gold - Because, really, have you LOOKED at the credit market lately? Egads.
Mirami2011-10-13 21:59:20
4. Org Momentum
(Not sure what you can do for this, but active divine seem to at least mirror what orgs are powerful.)
Ideally, Shuyin switching cities shouldn't be the #1 source of game balance / Org Momentum Shifts.
2. Revolt/Aetherflare Capture Speed
Personally, I liked the first round of flares where all the bubbles were in play at once. More winners = healthier, happier game. At any rate, the problem here lies, in part, with Winning Org Momentum (winners keep winning, in little time, while losers have a hard time breaking in)
13. Raid Mechanics
Pretty sure you're going to have to come up with a unique, Shuyin-based solution on this one, since I doubt we playerfolk are going to agree on a solution, and then have that solution actually work.
3. Choke
Put your Shuyin Stamp of Problem-solving on this one. It desperately needs it.
Demigods
There are too many aetherhunt-babies getting demigod. They are not entitled to anything more than a free T-shirt, no matter how much they whine. Sitting with your auto-targetter/piloter/empather does not entitle you to anything other than Demigod/Titan stats.
Maybe add DemiQuests or something, where demigods can do quests to get shiny new powers, or benefits for their org? (Do X quest, every member of your org that touches the artifact you plant in the Naos gets a shiny hat/free XP/etc). Something that encourages demigods to play the game, and not just aetherhunt, would be appreciated. Powers are great, and nifty, but they come fastest if you stop playing the game (go aetherhunting) to get them. To me, this is the problem with demigods.
EDIT: Races, too.
(Not sure what you can do for this, but active divine seem to at least mirror what orgs are powerful.)
Ideally, Shuyin switching cities shouldn't be the #1 source of game balance / Org Momentum Shifts.
2. Revolt/Aetherflare Capture Speed
Personally, I liked the first round of flares where all the bubbles were in play at once. More winners = healthier, happier game. At any rate, the problem here lies, in part, with Winning Org Momentum (winners keep winning, in little time, while losers have a hard time breaking in)
13. Raid Mechanics
Pretty sure you're going to have to come up with a unique, Shuyin-based solution on this one, since I doubt we playerfolk are going to agree on a solution, and then have that solution actually work.
3. Choke
Put your Shuyin Stamp of Problem-solving on this one. It desperately needs it.
Demigods
There are too many aetherhunt-babies getting demigod. They are not entitled to anything more than a free T-shirt, no matter how much they whine. Sitting with your auto-targetter/piloter/empather does not entitle you to anything other than Demigod/Titan stats.
Maybe add DemiQuests or something, where demigods can do quests to get shiny new powers, or benefits for their org? (Do X quest, every member of your org that touches the artifact you plant in the Naos gets a shiny hat/free XP/etc). Something that encourages demigods to play the game, and not just aetherhunt, would be appreciated. Powers are great, and nifty, but they come fastest if you stop playing the game (go aetherhunting) to get them. To me, this is the problem with demigods.
EDIT: Races, too.
Lilia2011-10-14 22:45:14
Here's my ranking, from most to least important:
1. Winning Org Momenturm
2. Village/Flare Capture Speed
3. Choke
4. DMP Inequailities
5. Warriors
6. Shrines
Nothing else stands out above the others for me, so I'll just leave it at six.
1. Winning Org Momenturm
2. Village/Flare Capture Speed
3. Choke
4. DMP Inequailities
5. Warriors
6. Shrines
Nothing else stands out above the others for me, so I'll just leave it at six.
Unknown2011-10-14 22:57:10
I guess now's as good a time as any to do a preliminary tally up. A moment.
Arcanis2011-10-15 17:56:18
- Choke
- Demigods
- Shrines
- Druids
- Aetherflares/Revolts speed
- XP loss
- Raid Mechanics
- Demigods
- Shrines
- Druids
- Aetherflares/Revolts speed
- XP loss
- Raid Mechanics
Malarious2011-10-15 18:16:15
How limited are we? We cannot actually do all of these?
Unknown2011-10-15 18:20:06
I think that depends on how complicated the problems we choose to work on are.
Some things (like Choke, Races, Constructs) likely won't require as extensive of changes as Warriors, Druids, and Monks.
Some things (like Choke, Races, Constructs) likely won't require as extensive of changes as Warriors, Druids, and Monks.