Rainydays:

Whatever is decided, if anything, it should be a two way street. If the sip bonus construct is too strong for high health races and thus inappropriate, then the racial level 3 sip is too strong for faelings able to push their health up past a given point.

Then who chooses that point, and where is it?

Any bonus you can give to a Faeling affects every other race to a greater degree (as they are percentage based); the only one that does not necessarily is Surge. However, a Shadowlord only has 12 int base which is rather median as such things go (Aslaran, Elfen Lord, Merian Lord all beat it for example, so it is not providing a huge extra benefit above other races).

Sure you can mitigate it, but you will always be lower than someone else who put in the same time and effort to get the same buffs. Admittedly other races may not feel as much need to do it in order to overcome the disadvantages, but if they don't, they're missing out on their version of the 'sip bonus' (which is achieved just by having much larger pools).

That's why I see the divide between a sip bonus on a race with low base pools, and a sip bonus on races with high base pools. The high base pool inherently has a bonus simply by being higher, and it will always be higher (on a percentage basis no less) assuming the same buffs / enhancements which everyone has equal access to.

I will add this; I feel that the sip bonus is absolutely essential to Faeling balance (by no means is it inconsequential, it is quite important). The sip bonus helps ameliorate the low constitution, without removing the penalty entirely. Instead, it makes the race more prone to bursts of damage. For example, even I as a Shadowlord have more issues with certain mobs than, say, Ragniliff as a human; where I have to hit and run, she can just stand there and take it usually. I recover fast, but with a lower base pool it's easier to burn me out.

Admittedly, this is less of an issue for a Warrior. At this point, there are very few Shadowlords, though. I generally advise people not to bother with it these days. If you're not a Demi, the race is pointless; even if you are, you're better as Aslaran (if you're min-maxing). I know that pulling this card is rather gauche at this point, so I'm not really expecting you all to go, "Oh, nobody plays it, let's buff them!" :P I'm just pointing out that as far as actual people picking the spec goes, it's just not as appealing as the numbers thrown around sometimes make it feel it should be.

Well, the point being, you can mitigate the low con to where it, by and large, doesn't create the scary low health totals that you get when you're a non-demi, say, shadowsinger faeling. (The faeling caster spec gets +con, giving them 10 making them at equal con to imperial merians and mugs, with a level 3 sip and no malus. Shadowsingers get no CON bonus however, and remain at base 9, so they're a better example here.) Will someone with 1 more point of con and all the same buffs have more health?

Yes, of course.

But beyond a given point, the level 3 bonus more than makes up for the difference. I remember Ardmore shocking me one day when he posted his health total as a faeling. I'm sure he went to satirical levels and was surged up to get a big number, but what I would like to see at this point is some real values on the table.

Say, demigod, SL faeling, fully buffed with what they would go in to combat and/or high end astral bashing with.

I have sympathy for the argument to give SL faelings their str point back. That was a "solution four" style change in the last review, and I remember distinctly wondering when that had come up in the conversation. Also, since my OWN spec race is less desireable than an unspecced faeling (leave alone comparing them to specced ones!) I certainly understand the frustration of not feeling compelled to play a race that you should be drawn to.

Honestly, I'm still of the opinion that the problem could be buried forever just by giving faelings X con and removing Y levels of the sip bonus. Then it would be a pretty simple answer for me, on whether or not they need the extra strength- it is obivous they need it, but level 3 sip bonus plus high end health, as has been pointed out regarding the magnagoran construct bonus, is always going to be a potential issue.

Sidenote- (apologies for the double, but this was tangentical and I didn't want to clutter my long winded posting style above more than I had to).

I don't mean to imply that Shadowcaster faelings (10 con base, level 3 sip, no malus) shouldn't be "tankier" than Imperial Merians or Mugs. They are meaningfully tankier (especially with Nightkiss thrown in), but this in itself isn't inappropriate- Merians and mugs both carry an EQ balance bonus, while faelings have a Balance bonus. For the archetypes that Imperial merians and Shadowcasters can be, the EQ is largely preferrable, and so the faelings being "tougher", in spite of their general reputation, is entirely proper.

Merians and Mugs are just too frail in more of a general sense. Much like Xenthos doesn't want to feel like he has to pick Aslaran over SL faelings due to low strength, I don't feel like I should be compelled to play the unspeced form of another org's spec race because the results are noticeably better than playing a seasinger merian. Hence the requests earlier in this thread.