Unknown2011-10-13 17:37:07
I'm fine with saying that they're in the same situation, but the "extra help" exists in other areas for -all- races, and shouldn't be part of the discussion. It reads as if he's throwing in the particular construct as if the construct should be part of viscanti balancing. If that's the case, then I hands down think that faelings should be balanced around domoths being on them. You can't be consistent and say that my position is wrong while his is correct (if he's making that argument) without either resorting to ad hoc statements or opening the door for me to make some other ridiculous claim.
The best thing to do is to look at the HELP
Viscanti, however, have the benefit of having a construct to offset the sip malus on top of the "extra help that exists in other places" for dracnari (and everyone else).
Anyway, that's not the point. The point is that I see dracnari and viscanti to be in the same boat; if you want to modify one, you should also modify the other.
Unknown2011-10-13 17:41:49
foolofsound:
You are being unproductive and childish. Not to mention wrong.
Sip Bonus IS a big deal; it is the central reason that Viscanti and Dracnari are considered fairly poor race choices. Further, you were personally arguing that the Mag construct giving a Lv1 Sip Bonus is unfair, so don't you try to claim that a Lv2 Sip bonus on Tae'dae is insignificant.
Further, you claim that Speed is King, yet you seem to you also claim that Lv1 Balance/EQ maluses are insufficient beside heavy Magic/Fire weaknesses (both common damage types) to cover for the race's signature tankiness.
1) Magnagora construct giving 1 sip balance bonus was opposed because Viscanti had high-level resistances on top of an above-average Con (if we consider human's 12 to be average).
2) Aside from being frighteningly tanky, Tae'dae are also blessed with high Str (the highest, in fact). So a little tweaking in the balance department would have quite large effects on the pure damage output of tae'daes. We can refer to Thul pre-Oothai change.
3) Of course Glomdoring would prefer faeling specializations for their guilds; it's their specialization race. It's the same as how Magnagora would prefer viscanti (refer to Sahmiam's passionate defense of viscanti). Et cetera et cetera for the other organizations.
Unknown2011-10-13 17:47:03
1) Magnagora construct giving 1 sip balance bonus was opposed because Viscanti had high-level resistances on top of an above-average Con (if we consider human's 12 to be average).
Not everyone in a Org is of that org's spec race, nor is everyone of a particular race focused in a single org, so we cannot include Construct bonuses in any sort of racial balancing, nor should we try to balance Constructs around the spec race of an Org. This is not to say that the Sip bonus is better than either commune's bonus, but claiming that the sip bonus is problematic because Viscanti are common (ha!) in the city is not sound reasoning.
2) Aside from being frighteningly tanky, Tae'dae are also blessed with high Str (the highest, in fact). So a little tweaking in the balance department would have quite large effects on the pure damage output of tae'daes. We can refer to Thul pre-Oothai change.
What of Imperial Merians with their base 18 Int AND Lv2 EQ bonus? Aquamancers/Celestines are hardly damage powerhouses/gamebreakers. Not to mention that warrior damage is comparatively quite low.
Pre-change Oothai should not be considered; it's damage was entirely too high to begin with. Refer to Enyalida's post that a non-transed Str 11 Illithoid was able to inflict nearly 2k with it using Scorpionspit Ibululu (or hell, beastspit).
Unknown2011-10-13 17:58:22
Merians also have 10 Con, no sip bonus, and no resistances (except for asphyxiation, yay that) like tae'dae's 17 Con, level 2 sip bonus, and 4 level-3 and 1 level-2 resistances.
EDIT: Thul was maybe a bad reference; the point was that outlier stats can have a big impact on damage output.
EDIT: Thul was maybe a bad reference; the point was that outlier stats can have a big impact on damage output.
Sidd2011-10-13 18:09:31
foolofsound:
You are being unproductive and childish. Not to mention wrong.
Sip Bonus IS a big deal; it is the central reason that Viscanti and Dracnari are considered fairly poor race choices. Further, you were personally arguing that the Mag construct giving a Lv1 Sip Bonus is unfair, so don't you try to claim that a Lv2 Sip bonus on Tae'dae is insignificant.
Further, you claim that Speed is King, yet you seem to you also claim that Lv1 Balance/EQ maluses are insufficient beside heavy Magic/Fire weaknesses (both common damage types) to cover for the race's signature tankiness.
I never argued anything about the sip bonus that construct gives in this thread, it's hard for me to take you seriously when you continue to make false statements or ignore what I've previously said, you want me to be productive, think before you write.
As far as sip bonuses go, I actually tend to go viscanti in group fights as a druid due to them being tankier than faeling. That sip malus is never the reason why I die(typically it's instakills). The sip bonus faelings get never saves me, It really just doesen't make that large of a difference overall. I'm speaking from personal experiance (I was just viscanti in a large faethorn fight last night. I did die once, but sometimes it happens.) You know what is a big deal, resistances. Those level 2 resistances to cutting/blunt/magic make a -huge- difference in my ability to survive when being focused. That's the reason for wanting resists lowered in exchange for speed.
Again, I've also said that it would be nice to get every race so it wouldn't matter what you choose, you would still be 'the best' choice. I just don't think that's possible (and others have agreed with me) without resorting to statpacks.
Edit: I also know for a fact, that other Gloms with cameos have changed into viscanti/dracnari to become tankier as well, high level combatants picking resists over sip malus, makes you think doesn't it?
Unknown2011-10-13 18:25:57
Sidd:
I never argued anything about the sip bonus that construct gives in this thread, it's hard for me to take you seriously when you continue to make false statements or ignore what I've previously said, you want me to be productive, think before you write.
The operative words being "In this thread". If you want me to take you seriously, don't post extensive personal attacks and then refuse to apologize for them.
As far as sip bonuses go, I actually tend to go viscanti in group fights as a druid due to them being tankier than faeling. That sip malus is never the reason why I die(typically it's instakills). The sip bonus faelings get never saves me, It really just doesen't make that large of a difference overall. I'm speaking from personal experiance (I was just viscanti in a large faethorn fight last night. I did die once, but sometimes it happens.) You know what is a big deal, resistances. Those level 2 resistances to cutting/blunt/magic make a -huge- difference in my ability to survive when being focused. That's the reason for wanting resists lowered in exchange for speed.
You know what kept me alive as a Faeling Mage? ForceField+Sip Bonus. Wanna know what kept me unhindered? Herb Bonus. I have personal experiences too.
Again, I've also said that it would be nice to get every race so it wouldn't matter what you choose, you would still be 'the best' choice. I just don't think that's possible (and others have agreed with me) without resorting to statpacks.
And thus it's not worth attempting? That's rather defeatist, and not a very useful attitude.
Edit: I also know for a fact, that other Gloms with cameos have changed into viscanti/dracnari to become tankier as well, high level combatants picking resists over sip malus, makes you think doesn't it?
It makes me think that Constitution has a lot more to do with survivability than resistances that can be circumvented.
Quorre2011-10-13 18:37:20
Let's keep Tae'Dae as they are but make their bearhug into oothai! (as a side note, current oothai needs a fair bit of setup to be good, and if you screw it up it does 0 wounds anyhow so you lose time)
But for serious, as a Demi Aslaran I get 18 str, 19 if there's war domoth/TF, and it's here that I feel comfy with wounding/affliction rate. A Tae'Dae has 17 str, so their pure wounding/damage is probably fine as a warrior (I don't know how outlier it'd get, not 100% sure how well str gets diminishing returns). The swing speed people seem to aim for as a warrior is ~3s, hindering and such makes it not toooo useful to go much faster. Weapon speed only really seems to matter when you have your target in a state where you're just pounding them anyhow (tendoned, pinned, crucified, choked, whatever).
What about if we try brainstorming balance around a 22 str warrior. To balance out the big wounding/damage, would a lv 1 balance malus be ok? What about instead balancing it with really bad dex (this seems to matter a lot but the exact ratio is unknown?) or do both?. Then let's say we look at tankininess (the other big deal). Tae'Dae Con is nice and beefy, and they have lots of resists. What if we just toned everything down by 1 level (maluses included), so they're sorta at Viscanti resists, but they've got Con/being a knight to back them up? They'll now be able to kill you (eventually, assuming the dex/lv 1 malus properly hoses them, if its not enough then maybe drop dex even lower (monk damage scales up on dex with wounding but the high str might balance that out, maybe they stance worse and stuff but high con/resists should keep them alive)), and they'll still be fairly tanky, but at the same time they're still vulnerable to stuff like webbing (slow writhe is slow) and manakills and such.
IF this is okay, would this work for a Tae'Dae monk? (probably be at 19-20 str in best case scenario) Speed is awesome all the time for monks (again, warriors only really seem to get a big bonus off of speed when target is moslty helpless), so is a lv 1 balance enough to negate them from being too horrifying at those stats?
IF this is okay, then what else would Tae'Dae be good at ? Good Cha seems to suggest Bard to me (I suppose TK mage too). Eq malus is the big deal here, so let's drop the Eq malus to 1. They're already tanky if we go by the same resistances/con as we did in the warrior part right? So keeping that part's fine. Are they OP? Well, their stats say that 17 str is now only really great for shield stun and toadstomping, they've got pretty good Cha, Int's pretty low (vulnerable to mana kills and i think less bard damage?, but they're so tanky otherwise). IF this means that they're playable, awesomesauce. If not, then why?
Repeat for other classes, save for classes the race just shouldn't be, Orclach bards coming to mind. I do think that it's okay for certain races to not be good in certain classes, as long as there are classes that they CAN be good in.
But for serious, as a Demi Aslaran I get 18 str, 19 if there's war domoth/TF, and it's here that I feel comfy with wounding/affliction rate. A Tae'Dae has 17 str, so their pure wounding/damage is probably fine as a warrior (I don't know how outlier it'd get, not 100% sure how well str gets diminishing returns). The swing speed people seem to aim for as a warrior is ~3s, hindering and such makes it not toooo useful to go much faster. Weapon speed only really seems to matter when you have your target in a state where you're just pounding them anyhow (tendoned, pinned, crucified, choked, whatever).
What about if we try brainstorming balance around a 22 str warrior. To balance out the big wounding/damage, would a lv 1 balance malus be ok? What about instead balancing it with really bad dex (this seems to matter a lot but the exact ratio is unknown?) or do both?. Then let's say we look at tankininess (the other big deal). Tae'Dae Con is nice and beefy, and they have lots of resists. What if we just toned everything down by 1 level (maluses included), so they're sorta at Viscanti resists, but they've got Con/being a knight to back them up? They'll now be able to kill you (eventually, assuming the dex/lv 1 malus properly hoses them, if its not enough then maybe drop dex even lower (monk damage scales up on dex with wounding but the high str might balance that out, maybe they stance worse and stuff but high con/resists should keep them alive)), and they'll still be fairly tanky, but at the same time they're still vulnerable to stuff like webbing (slow writhe is slow) and manakills and such.
IF this is okay, would this work for a Tae'Dae monk? (probably be at 19-20 str in best case scenario) Speed is awesome all the time for monks (again, warriors only really seem to get a big bonus off of speed when target is moslty helpless), so is a lv 1 balance enough to negate them from being too horrifying at those stats?
IF this is okay, then what else would Tae'Dae be good at ? Good Cha seems to suggest Bard to me (I suppose TK mage too). Eq malus is the big deal here, so let's drop the Eq malus to 1. They're already tanky if we go by the same resistances/con as we did in the warrior part right? So keeping that part's fine. Are they OP? Well, their stats say that 17 str is now only really great for shield stun and toadstomping, they've got pretty good Cha, Int's pretty low (vulnerable to mana kills and i think less bard damage?, but they're so tanky otherwise). IF this means that they're playable, awesomesauce. If not, then why?
Repeat for other classes, save for classes the race just shouldn't be, Orclach bards coming to mind. I do think that it's okay for certain races to not be good in certain classes, as long as there are classes that they CAN be good in.
Sidd2011-10-13 18:38:47
go ahead and quote me on my arguements against Mag's sip bonus construct. If anything, I would just argue that it's more powerful than other construct bonuses, but I really don't see it as a big deal overall.
I don't feel I should apologize for pointing out your complete disregard to actually see what I'm writing. You've made straight up 100% false statements about what I've said quite a few times now. Up until that point, I regarded all your comments and points with respect even after you threw an insult my direction, but when you try to put words in my mouth and aren't paying attention to what is actually being written, that respect goes out the window. I'll make a deal with you now, you start reading and only use my actual truthful quotes as quotes, I'll go back to being respectful and to the point.
You know what kept you alive as a faeling mage, Forcefield. Why do you think that illithoid is a popular choice for TK? egodrain for forcefield.
I don't think it's worth wasting time on something that is unable to be achieved. You can meddle and fuss all you like, but until it's equalized across the board, there will always be one clear choice. That goes for spec races too, I think they should be the clear choice, but they never will be.
And we're well aware of your combat views, how you'd prefer 1v1 compared to groups, but in all honesty. Group combat is more fun. I've actually had more fun fighting against the Magnawildifax surge the past couple weeks than I have in awhile. I also want to point out how you mention Con has more to do with surviving, did you know using FF as a faeling is essentially adding your CHA to your CON. In groups though, resists play a huge role, I can get 6.5k health as a faeling, as viscanti it goes up to 7.5k, that's one staffcast difference, resists make that difference more like 3k health added.
I don't feel I should apologize for pointing out your complete disregard to actually see what I'm writing. You've made straight up 100% false statements about what I've said quite a few times now. Up until that point, I regarded all your comments and points with respect even after you threw an insult my direction, but when you try to put words in my mouth and aren't paying attention to what is actually being written, that respect goes out the window. I'll make a deal with you now, you start reading and only use my actual truthful quotes as quotes, I'll go back to being respectful and to the point.
You know what kept you alive as a faeling mage, Forcefield. Why do you think that illithoid is a popular choice for TK? egodrain for forcefield.
I don't think it's worth wasting time on something that is unable to be achieved. You can meddle and fuss all you like, but until it's equalized across the board, there will always be one clear choice. That goes for spec races too, I think they should be the clear choice, but they never will be.
And we're well aware of your combat views, how you'd prefer 1v1 compared to groups, but in all honesty. Group combat is more fun. I've actually had more fun fighting against the Magnawildifax surge the past couple weeks than I have in awhile. I also want to point out how you mention Con has more to do with surviving, did you know using FF as a faeling is essentially adding your CHA to your CON. In groups though, resists play a huge role, I can get 6.5k health as a faeling, as viscanti it goes up to 7.5k, that's one staffcast difference, resists make that difference more like 3k health added.
Unknown2011-10-13 18:40:17
I do wonder who foolofsound is now, and if he/she is as prominent a combatant as Sidd is.
Malarious2011-10-13 18:41:19
Some of the arguments here look more like they were thrown together in the hopes of sounding convincing.
Fool, why would a monk be faeling over aslaran? Over 50% of all damage is based on your strength as the kick does not use dex. Its generally agreed if you want speed you go aslaran because its far and away superior.
If you call -2 slower herbs a big penalty you need to leave the thread until you have tested what this means. By no means would I ever look at herb penalties or bonus's as a game changer.
To those who believe Faeling need huge penalties to offset their edges. Remember most "advantages" are there to offset the naturalized flaws in a race. What does this mean? Level 3 sip bonus means they sip for a good amount, which is to help with their nonexistant con. Any race With lvl 2 balance bonus also has low strength. Yada yada yada. Anytime you propose an adjustment remember the implications it has. The high str races also have low dex and penalties so their dps/wps did not break too heavily from the standard. If you look through every race basically you will see these sort of exchanges in place as a balancing factor. When you say to lower a sip bonus you are saying to make con more of an issue, when you say lower the int as a warrior you are not saying as much as if you say lower it for a caster.
At the moment Faeling vs Aslaran says Aslaran win these contests, even specced. Why? Faeling has a sip bonus! Because strength matters that much. If fire weakness was a huge factor it would have been asked for a removal some time ago. But nowadays with tattoos, proofing, DMP, etc it is pretty easy to get past a weakness primarily performed by damage runes from monks/warriors which changes say a third of their damage is all. Lower sip bonus by 1, increase base con by 1, and give them +1 strength. Would that be good or do you feel the extra con is too good for the loss of the sip bonus? Ok then lets give +1 strength and remove the herb bonus!
Theres a million ways to fix anything, the problem is finding the right one. Start with a scalpel and only pull a saw if it is needed. Most races have 1 or 2 things to be worried about.
I know from experience and prior combat history that once you pull a low stat race someone is bound to make use of it. As a Nihilist I would discern to assess damage vs mana kills. Orclach, Krokani, etc had little hope to avoid benig wracked and that made them almost unplayable, especially when you talk about groups with 2/3 drainers at once.
Anyway given the above I will see where people go with things before making any further suggestions. Just keep them in mind instead of going for bias before basis.
Consider this a warning about getting too heated, if you are thrashing your keyboard take a break from this thread and read your race scrolls a bit. Think of it from the other guys side and then come back. As of this moment I would personally start recommending warnings as it is not productive to be this venomous, and it discourages others from giving their thoughts. Can we call it a peaceful discussion or should we assign a war zone?
Fool, why would a monk be faeling over aslaran? Over 50% of all damage is based on your strength as the kick does not use dex. Its generally agreed if you want speed you go aslaran because its far and away superior.
If you call -2 slower herbs a big penalty you need to leave the thread until you have tested what this means. By no means would I ever look at herb penalties or bonus's as a game changer.
To those who believe Faeling need huge penalties to offset their edges. Remember most "advantages" are there to offset the naturalized flaws in a race. What does this mean? Level 3 sip bonus means they sip for a good amount, which is to help with their nonexistant con. Any race With lvl 2 balance bonus also has low strength. Yada yada yada. Anytime you propose an adjustment remember the implications it has. The high str races also have low dex and penalties so their dps/wps did not break too heavily from the standard. If you look through every race basically you will see these sort of exchanges in place as a balancing factor. When you say to lower a sip bonus you are saying to make con more of an issue, when you say lower the int as a warrior you are not saying as much as if you say lower it for a caster.
At the moment Faeling vs Aslaran says Aslaran win these contests, even specced. Why? Faeling has a sip bonus! Because strength matters that much. If fire weakness was a huge factor it would have been asked for a removal some time ago. But nowadays with tattoos, proofing, DMP, etc it is pretty easy to get past a weakness primarily performed by damage runes from monks/warriors which changes say a third of their damage is all. Lower sip bonus by 1, increase base con by 1, and give them +1 strength. Would that be good or do you feel the extra con is too good for the loss of the sip bonus? Ok then lets give +1 strength and remove the herb bonus!
Theres a million ways to fix anything, the problem is finding the right one. Start with a scalpel and only pull a saw if it is needed. Most races have 1 or 2 things to be worried about.
I know from experience and prior combat history that once you pull a low stat race someone is bound to make use of it. As a Nihilist I would discern to assess damage vs mana kills. Orclach, Krokani, etc had little hope to avoid benig wracked and that made them almost unplayable, especially when you talk about groups with 2/3 drainers at once.
Anyway given the above I will see where people go with things before making any further suggestions. Just keep them in mind instead of going for bias before basis.
Consider this a warning about getting too heated, if you are thrashing your keyboard take a break from this thread and read your race scrolls a bit. Think of it from the other guys side and then come back. As of this moment I would personally start recommending warnings as it is not productive to be this venomous, and it discourages others from giving their thoughts. Can we call it a peaceful discussion or should we assign a war zone?
Unknown2011-10-13 18:41:46
To be honest when it comes to the popular faeling + forcefield combo, most of the work really is done by forcefield, and not on faeling.
Unknown2011-10-13 18:56:20
Ok: Lets try again.
Offense: Tae'dae have great Strength, allowing them to do high damage and wounding.
This is counteracted by their abysmal Dexterity, meaning that they more rarely afflict, are dodged more often, and more rarely hit the targeted body part (I believe). Further, their low speed makes them unable to outpace curing/sipping effectively, exacerbating the problem.This low speed also contributes to their inability to be Bards, as they cannot effectively BlankNote while also maintaining an offense and hindering.
Defense: Tae'dae have great survivability, with strong resists, high Constitution, and a Sip Bonus.
Partially counteracted by two rather extreme weaknesses to common damage types (all mages/guardians/wiccans/bards have access to Fire or Magic damage, or both) . Further, they have low Int, making them vulnerable to Manakills (which every org has) and leaving them unable to effectively Surge. The major factor contributing to their tankiness is a combination of high Constitution and Sip Bonus, with the Resists being circumventable by most guilds.
Currently, the problem with Tae'dae is that they have virtually no offensive capacity. By trading off some of their great defensive capacity in the form of their Sip Bonus (which makes them more vulnerable to Health, Mana, and Ego damage) in exchange for REDUCING their speed malus to the point that they have a moderately effective offense while retaining an impressive defense, the race can be fixed.
Offense: Tae'dae have great Strength, allowing them to do high damage and wounding.
This is counteracted by their abysmal Dexterity, meaning that they more rarely afflict, are dodged more often, and more rarely hit the targeted body part (I believe). Further, their low speed makes them unable to outpace curing/sipping effectively, exacerbating the problem.This low speed also contributes to their inability to be Bards, as they cannot effectively BlankNote while also maintaining an offense and hindering.
Defense: Tae'dae have great survivability, with strong resists, high Constitution, and a Sip Bonus.
Partially counteracted by two rather extreme weaknesses to common damage types (all mages/guardians/wiccans/bards have access to Fire or Magic damage, or both) . Further, they have low Int, making them vulnerable to Manakills (which every org has) and leaving them unable to effectively Surge. The major factor contributing to their tankiness is a combination of high Constitution and Sip Bonus, with the Resists being circumventable by most guilds.
Currently, the problem with Tae'dae is that they have virtually no offensive capacity. By trading off some of their great defensive capacity in the form of their Sip Bonus (which makes them more vulnerable to Health, Mana, and Ego damage) in exchange for REDUCING their speed malus to the point that they have a moderately effective offense while retaining an impressive defense, the race can be fixed.
Neos2011-10-13 18:59:28
What's the regular speed of a tae'dae?
Sidd2011-10-13 19:02:26
foolofsound:
Ok: Lets try again.
Offense: Tae'dae have great Strength, allowing them to do high damage and wounding.
This is counteracted by their abysmal Dexterity, meaning that they more rarely afflict, are dodged more often, and more rarely hit the targeted body part (I believe). Further, their low speed makes them unable to outpace curing/sipping effectively, exacerbating the problem.This low speed also constitutes to their inability to be Bards, as they cannot effectively BlankNote while also maintaining an offense and hindering.
Defense: Tae'dae have great survivability, with strong resists, high Constitution, and a Sip Bonus.
Partially counteracted by two rather extreme weaknesses to common damage types (all mages/guardians/wiccans/bards have access to Fire or Magic damage, or both) . Further, they have low Int, making them vulnerable to Manakills (which every org has) and leaving them unable to effectively Surge. The major factor contributing to their tankiness is a combination of high Constitution and Sip Bonus.
Currently, the problem with Tae'dae is that they have virtually no offensive capacity. By trading off some of their great defensive capacity in the form of their Sip Bonus (which makes them more vulnerable to Health, Mana, and Ego damage) in exchange for REDUCING their speed malus to the point that they have a moderately effective offense while retaining an impressive defense, the race can be fixed.
The sip bonus isn't as vital to their tankyness as you are trying to imply. The resists are. I've stated reasons above as to why this is. If you want to reduce speed maluses, then I think you need to give up some of those resists, not the sip bonus.
Malarious2011-10-13 19:03:59
foolofsound:
Ok: Lets try again.
Offense: Tae'dae have great Strength, allowing them to do high damage and wounding.
This is counteracted by their abysmal Dexterity, meaning that they more rarely afflict, are dodged more often, and more rarely hit the targeted body part (I believe). Further, their low speed makes them unable to outpace curing/sipping effectively, exacerbating the problem.This low speed also constitutes to their inability to be Bards, as they cannot effectively BlankNote while also maintaining an offense and hindering.
Defense: Tae'dae have great survivability, with strong resists, high Constitution, and a Sip Bonus.
Partially counteracted by two rather extreme weaknesses to common damage types (all mages/guardians/wiccans/bards have access to Fire or Magic damage, or both) . Further, they have low Int, making them vulnerable to Manakills (which every org has) and leaving them unable to effectively Surge. The major factor contributing to their tankiness is a combination of high Constitution and Sip Bonus.
Currently, the problem with Tae'dae is that they have virtually no offensive capacity. By trading off some of their great defensive capacity in the form of their Sip Bonus (which makes them more vulnerable to Health, Mana, and Ego damage) in exchange for REDUCING their speed malus to the point that they have a moderately effective offense while retaining an impressive defense, the race can be fixed.
Much more sound :)
They are not likely to die to health damage even if you lower sip penalty, they still have 17 con and resistance to most types! The only threat they would really have is pure magic, which already scales. Lower balance penalty to 1/2, leave eq pretty much where it is unless there is reason to adjust that. However this does not really faze their defense... would we lower resists?
Unknown2011-10-13 19:08:51
Hmm. If we are to lower resists, I suppose it would be most appropriate to lower their Cutting/Blunt Resists to Lv2. it is a little silly that a Tae'dae's fur/blubber has as much physical stopping power as a Kephera's carapace.
Possibly also remove Psychic resist entirely; Tae'dae are not a classical psychically active race; though I suppose they could be with that level of charisma.
Reducing the EQ penalty hinges on if we want Tae'dae bards to be viable. I kinda like the idea, but am not sure if the admins intend that for the race.
Possibly also remove Psychic resist entirely; Tae'dae are not a classical psychically active race; though I suppose they could be with that level of charisma.
Reducing the EQ penalty hinges on if we want Tae'dae bards to be viable. I kinda like the idea, but am not sure if the admins intend that for the race.
Sidd2011-10-13 19:14:36
foolofsound:
Hmm. If we are to lower resists, I suppose it would be most appropriate to lower their Cutting/Blunt Resists to Lv2. it is a little silly that a Tae'dae's fur/blubber has as much physical stopping power as a Kephera's carapace.
Possibly also remove Psychic resist entirely; Tae'dae are not a classical psychically active race; though I suppose they could be with that level of charisma.
Reducing the EQ penalty hinges on if we want Tae'dae bards to be viable. I kinda like the idea, but am not sure if the admins intend that for the race.
The psychic resist I felt was just to Tae'dae 'slow thinking'.
I'll also point out it's incredibly rude to misquote people, something that you haven't apologized for either, so I can say the same thing.
Unknown2011-10-13 19:22:43
Yes. I'm sure that misunderstanding your arguments is an act of intentionally rudeness of the same magnitude accusing me of being stupid and lacking the reading comprehension of a first grader. I'm done responding to your arguments.. Your response to every argument against you, both here and on the envoys channel, is to claim that your opponent is deliberately misstating your argument. Continuing to debate this with you will take us nowhere, so I plan to stop for my own sanity.
Regardless of what it represents, losing the Psychic Resist feels more appropriate to me than losing any other resist, besides a single level of Cutting/Blunt.
Regardless of what it represents, losing the Psychic Resist feels more appropriate to me than losing any other resist, besides a single level of Cutting/Blunt.
Sidd2011-10-13 19:32:05
foolofsound:
Yes. I'm sure that misunderstanding your arguments is an act of intentionally rudeness of the same magnitude accusing me of being stupid and lacking the reading comprehension of a first grader. I'm done responding to your arguments.. Your response to every argument against you, both here and on the envoys channel, is to claim that your opponent is deliberately misstating your argument. Continuing to debate this with you will take us nowhere, so I plan to stop for my own sanity.
Regardless of what it represents, losing the Psychic Resist feels more appropriate to me than losing any other resist, besides a single level of Cutting/Blunt.
Right, when you say I vehemently oppose tae'dae upgrades right below a post that says 'I agree they could use them.' That's difficult to understand. I actually come to understandings quite often, in fact, I threw up a rough idea about TP's and TK's to envoys just the other day that I thought would be great but after a few people discussed it, I realized it was not that great. The same goes for plenty of other things. I'm sorry you have issues with understanding what I write (and even claiming I made arguments that I never did). I'm sure if I made very pointed statements about your views that were directly against what you yourself was saying, you'd get pretty distraught as well, and then if I continued to do it, you would continue to be more distraught.
Interesting about envoys though, I figured you were Jello or Winnae with the intensity you were putting forth, but apparently I was wrong. I guess you forgot about the TK/TP idea I threw up and actual sided with Morbo on.
Edit: I'll go ahead and bow out, I know other people agree with me, maybe not to the same extent, but similar, I'll let them discuss it
Unknown2011-10-13 19:55:47
Proposed Tae'dae changes attempt 2:
-Reduce Balance/EQ maluses to Lv1.
(This opens up Tae'dae to Warrior/Monk/Bard and possibly Psionic Mage, while maintaining the race's characteristic slowness.)
-Remove Lv2 Sip bonus.
-Reduce Cutting/Blunt Resistances to Lv2
-Reduce Psychic Resistance to Lv1
(To make up for the increased offensive power granted by improved speed, some trade-offs from defense are necessary.)
Alternatively, if Tae'dae are not intended to be Mages/Bards, reduce the EQ penalty to Lv2 instead, and leave Psychic Resist at Lv2.
-Reduce Balance/EQ maluses to Lv1.
(This opens up Tae'dae to Warrior/Monk/Bard and possibly Psionic Mage, while maintaining the race's characteristic slowness.)
-Remove Lv2 Sip bonus.
-Reduce Cutting/Blunt Resistances to Lv2
-Reduce Psychic Resistance to Lv1
(To make up for the increased offensive power granted by improved speed, some trade-offs from defense are necessary.)
Alternatively, if Tae'dae are not intended to be Mages/Bards, reduce the EQ penalty to Lv2 instead, and leave Psychic Resist at Lv2.
