Ixion2012-01-25 01:42:37
The execute argument has some merit, but I don't buy any other argument. 4s paralysis is the same as tendon...
Malarious2012-01-25 01:48:22
You misunderstand what I meant with the warrior report Lilija:
- Armor is going to go DOWN, so knights will be dealing higher wounds on high tier
- % to hit target area on swings and such is going up
This means the WPS is getting high while also increasing how often you will hit the area to generate the afflictions.
As I pointed out, gut 4s prone in a spec with execute is a bad thing. It is fair to debate how easily you can SP > KD > SP > KD but unless I am mistaken you can use jab/strike for knockdown which is considerably more likely. The question here is the effect of Severedspine on AL, and thus far it only increases the ease of "warrior gank syndrome" where openers are seemingly all regeneration cures. An area like gut which is both less likely to be defended while also making execute more likely does not bode well given the prior history of AL. We must also keep in mind the warrior changes which will be a considerable increase in warrior efficiency.
As to other options to adjust the skillset, maybe add broken leg and arm to medium wounds (easy to get on a single hit) as a jab. Alternatively put broken arm in light, and an EFFECT in medium wounds that attempts to throw off parry for 4s. Just some quick thoughts.
P.S. A gut aff is alot easier to pull than a leg targetted one. With 2 easy prone areas and slit throat readily available it would take very little skill to make AL work at this rate IMO. That is subjective but still, long term (I get a second swing) prones generally cause things to become easy.
- Armor is going to go DOWN, so knights will be dealing higher wounds on high tier
- % to hit target area on swings and such is going up
This means the WPS is getting high while also increasing how often you will hit the area to generate the afflictions.
As I pointed out, gut 4s prone in a spec with execute is a bad thing. It is fair to debate how easily you can SP > KD > SP > KD but unless I am mistaken you can use jab/strike for knockdown which is considerably more likely. The question here is the effect of Severedspine on AL, and thus far it only increases the ease of "warrior gank syndrome" where openers are seemingly all regeneration cures. An area like gut which is both less likely to be defended while also making execute more likely does not bode well given the prior history of AL. We must also keep in mind the warrior changes which will be a considerable increase in warrior efficiency.
As to other options to adjust the skillset, maybe add broken leg and arm to medium wounds (easy to get on a single hit) as a jab. Alternatively put broken arm in light, and an EFFECT in medium wounds that attempts to throw off parry for 4s. Just some quick thoughts.
P.S. A gut aff is alot easier to pull than a leg targetted one. With 2 easy prone areas and slit throat readily available it would take very little skill to make AL work at this rate IMO. That is subjective but still, long term (I get a second swing) prones generally cause things to become easy.
Turnus2012-01-25 02:05:39
The only reason gut is "easier" to get up on than legs is due to systems prioritizing legs over gut due to the lack of many good gut affs. I don't see that as a valid reason why severspine at gut is worse than tendon on a leg. What could be a valid argument is if severspine stops you from initiating a tumble (I don't know if it does or not offhand), though pinleg/impale has the same ability to stop a tumble and is at heavy wound level.
Malarious2012-01-25 02:13:07
Priority is because the design of warrior combat says all prones/hinders of considerable strength must currently target the legs. If BM could impale at heavy on gut I imagine everyone would rush to go BM for easy kills. As has been said there are multiple reasons tendon is > pinleg.
1) You already have knockdown, having two just leads to chains
2) Gut plays into execute, you could have severedspine every other hit if you wanted and that would very easily build.
3) Axelord has other options going for it, overly diversifying these will make it too powerful.
I shutter what an AL in a group would be like, constant regenerations at all times.
1) You already have knockdown, having two just leads to chains
2) Gut plays into execute, you could have severedspine every other hit if you wanted and that would very easily build.
3) Axelord has other options going for it, overly diversifying these will make it too powerful.
I shutter what an AL in a group would be like, constant regenerations at all times.
Lilija2012-01-25 07:02:50
Isn't constant regen what most of the monk guilds are about? I am completely talking out of my A on that one, so feel free to dismiss that comment. AL in group would be about the same as PB, wouldn't it? Tendon = regen, why should AL be any different? I'd love, by the by, to hear the other options for AL.
I can tumble while paralysed with mantakaya, so I imagine that doing so with severspine is a go. Will verify that tomorrow.
I will agree that execute creates an issue with gut. Look at requiring execute to have two areas instead of one at critical instead then? Or possibly all three to attempt to balance this out? Just throwing ideas out there.
I can tumble while paralysed with mantakaya, so I imagine that doing so with severspine is a go. Will verify that tomorrow.
I will agree that execute creates an issue with gut. Look at requiring execute to have two areas instead of one at critical instead then? Or possibly all three to attempt to balance this out? Just throwing ideas out there.
Raeri2012-01-25 07:35:08
Malarious:
Priority is because the design of warrior combat says all prones/hinders of considerable strength must currently target the legs. If BM could impale at heavy on gut I imagine everyone would rush to go BM for easy kills. As has been said there are multiple reasons tendon is > pinleg.
1) You already have knockdown, having two just leads to chains
2) Gut plays into execute, you could have severedspine every other hit if you wanted and that would very easily build.
3) Axelord has other options going for it, overly diversifying these will make it too powerful.
I shutter what an AL in a group would be like, constant regenerations at all times.
If we take that AL can cycle kd/severedspine, I would venture that it is no worse than PB alternating tendons between lleg and rleg, except with the added bonus of possible amputates?
Ixion2012-01-25 07:40:06
Malarious:
It is fair to debate how easily you can SP > KD > SP > KD
P.S. A gut aff is alot easier to pull than a leg targetted one. With 2 easy prone areas and slit throat readily available it would take very little skill to make AL work at this rate IMO. That is subjective but still, long term (I get a second swing) prones generally cause things to become easy.
I believe SeveredSpine is a sprawl, and KD doesn't work if sprawled.
Not necessarily about the gut, one leg cures before the other which you can abuse. Forced symmetry is an example of instances where it's harder to get leg affs. Spine is also swing only, which means power sweep or hack up essentially.
Raeri:
If we take that AL can cycle kd/severedspine, I would venture that it is no worse than PB alternating tendons between lleg and rleg, except with the added bonus of possible amputates?
That's also the point. They need more wounds building synergy IMO.
That said it's probably best to wait until the special warrior report is done and re-assess then.
Rivius2012-01-25 08:49:44
Keep in mind also that legs are not protected by trueshield but the gut is. Also, you can allheale off a severed spine whereas you cannot do that with a tendon.
But I do understand the concern about execute.
...Not sure what you were getting at here since, you know, you actually can impale as a blademaster at heavy on the gut.
I also don't see what you mean by "chaining". The average combat speed is about 3+ seconds for a warrior. Regen cures are approximately 4 seconds if my lack-of-sleep addled mind remembers correctly. Having to wait that extra three seconds to knockdown means that your severedspine will cure in 1 second after being sprawled, which is just about the balance-loss on knockdown anyway. I wouldn't even bother trying to sprawl you if going for a lock for these reasons but instead try to add slitthroat and slickness which would already make that a greenlock.
The only concern I see is figuring out a good parry/stance heuristic that covers the usual spots, head and legs as well as covers the gut adequately. Maybe one would need to start off parrying legs and stancing vitals? Would have to think that one through.
EDIT: To the above, severedspine does not sprawl. It prones though. But knockdown would work on it.
But I do understand the concern about execute.
Priority is because the design of warrior combat says all prones/hinders of considerable strength must currently target the legs. If BM could impale at heavy on gut I imagine everyone would rush to go BM for easy kills. As has been said there are multiple reasons tendon is > pinleg.
...Not sure what you were getting at here since, you know, you actually can impale as a blademaster at heavy on the gut.
I also don't see what you mean by "chaining". The average combat speed is about 3+ seconds for a warrior. Regen cures are approximately 4 seconds if my lack-of-sleep addled mind remembers correctly. Having to wait that extra three seconds to knockdown means that your severedspine will cure in 1 second after being sprawled, which is just about the balance-loss on knockdown anyway. I wouldn't even bother trying to sprawl you if going for a lock for these reasons but instead try to add slitthroat and slickness which would already make that a greenlock.
The only concern I see is figuring out a good parry/stance heuristic that covers the usual spots, head and legs as well as covers the gut adequately. Maybe one would need to start off parrying legs and stancing vitals? Would have to think that one through.
EDIT: To the above, severedspine does not sprawl. It prones though. But knockdown would work on it.
Ushaara2012-01-26 06:00:31
I certainly agree Axelord needs some love, but I am wary about moving severedspine to heavy. Reason being is that with slit/senso also at heavy, that's a (standing, interestingly) greenlock that fulfils two of execute's requirements. Question is then how different is this to PB tendon/slit. In any case, I think it could be tried, and if it too strong, execute could be tweaked instead?
Malarious2012-01-26 16:18:41
When this issue comes up again, could someone just make a new topic. So we avoid the necro'd part of it?
