Enyalida:

Gift (10 weight/8,000,000 cost/7,500 use)
A slightly better version of the 5p ecology herbrenewal skill that sees spare use as is.

Eh, it's good flavour if little else. Would be neater if it'd simultaneously add in a Growth effect on top of the current though. Not Guard so that you can potentially replant from the one room, but Growth would be nice.

Enyalida:

Harvest (20w/12mil)
Wooo, 20 weight and 12 mil essence for extra herbs! Faaabulous. Looks like 125 max every 25 hours, with a chance to grab spices.

Easy fix for this one would be to just ditch the 25 hour timer since it functions off of the last time you harvested, which leads to disgustingly annoying overlap tracking which is just not worth it. Base it on the weave instead and I guarantee it'd at least be better.

Enyalida:

Aegis (50w/25mil/10k)
I'm a little iffy here. It's very useful for say, group bashing. Not so useful for combat. Either damage will be so overwheming on the target that it ends up killing you both, or they die of non-damage based killing (almost all of it), or they just aren't the target. Not worth 50 weight.

I'd toss Aegis up to be more than fine, though I doubt many would complain if any (or all) of the skills just became cheaper anyway.

Enyalida:

Even-Handed Blessing (25w/25mil/10k)
Do I even have to explain on this one? What's the use of saving your entire group if you also save the entire enemy group? Worth a fraction of its cost, but what it does means that no one would use it even if it were totally free.

The only instance I can see it being useful is when a group is bashing some domoth critters and some people just don't cure. But since it's limited to, I believe, 5 pops a Lusternian month, it just doesn't work out that way for that cost. I think it might be more interesting if the skill just worked like Healing Sacrifice instead. Without the 5 pop limitation anyway.

Enyalida:

Fortunate Windfalls (20w/12mil)
Better then harvest, but still runs into the same problems. Commodities are cheap enough, there really is no great need to ever have them, you aren't likely to get something you want/need and 20 weight doesn't justify getting lucky and pulling gems.

Just like Harvest, ditch the 25 hour timer and base it off of the weave instead for a simpler fix.

Enyalida:

Beauteous Workings (15w/15mil)
You get an extra speschul snowflake sparkle on your crafted items! They all work a little better! You just spent 15w on something that can be accomplished with a cool cartel name and a embroidering!

If the skill worked like the equivalent of possessing the trade artifacts (maybe one a Lusty month you can change like skillflexing maybe) instead, I can actually see it being used with a higher cost. I know I'd be more apt to getting Beauteous Workings instead of a jeweler's hammer anyway.

Enyalida:

Ostensible Dreamer (50w/18mil)
Not only is this only useful to illusionists, it's not very useful to them. The rate at which people see though illusions really isn't that high anyways, and illusions are really just the icing on the (TK) cake.

It's not even illusion strengthening in the manner that it makes it harder to detect them, if I remember right. It just makes them harder to dispel.

Enyalida:

Distant Perceptions (20w/10mil)
Eavesdropping just isn't useful. Big things are said on clans, or behind closed doors in privacy'd rooms. Also, people use blue, which may or may not make them proof against your eavesdropping. I'm a dreamweaver who bums around in dreambody a lot. Trust me, people don't have that much interesting to say.

Suggested change to a thoughtstealer-like effect instead. LoS is kinda poo.


Well, those're some of my thoughts on the matter about the Ascendant skills. The beast powers are neat and flavourful, but would collectively be better if the power imbued just became permanent instead of fading in an hour like the current Beastmastery trans ability.

Had an idea earlier that I forgot to add here...

Delivery: Basically, you'd make an item disappear from your inventory and reappear in someone elses (with accompanying messages, of course). It'd have competition from the dirigible and the zeppelin, but considering this would take a very limited resource (weight), I don't see any harm of adding it to Demigods.

All right, this thread has been quiet for a few days now, plus the ice devil event is now over and we're all filthy rich, so back to business.

General Changes:
1. Shorten the gap between demis/vernals/ascendants = suggested weights: 100/125/150
2. Add more powers, combat/utility/RP
3. Review the costs/weight for the powers that currently exist, ascendant included.
4. Add back a lot of the old features demigods had, buyable as powers.
5. Allow sealholders access to domoth powers.
6. Reduce the cost of ephemeral powers or implement a skillflex system for them.

Specific Changes:

Combat:
Additional +1 stat (str/con/int/cha/dex)
+1 regen (health/mana/ego)
Additional DMP to damage types, will definitely have a significant weight/cost
Additional damage buffs, will definitely have a significant weight/cost
Divine beast: Beast power, will improve its stats (hp/mana/ego), perhaps grant access to a special ability,to be decided.

Utility:
Additional influence ability (weaken/empower/paranoia/seduction)
Quasi-Anchor: imbue essence in any location to return to it. People can't follow through with you, essence cost and not instant. Super milestone.
Delivery: Make an item disappear from your inventory and reappear in someone elses (with accompanying messages, of course)
Dessicate: destroys items in your inventory, so long as they have months left, no arties. Stopped by flame sigils.
Trade skill improvements: To Be Decided
Ability to bestow a demifavour, buffing a player's stat by 1 for x minutes.
Demigod power that copies commandant arties.

RP:
Choice Ambient: passive flavour message in the room like the other choice abilities.
Choice Race: much like the dingbat hats, convert your physical race (not stat, just an aesthetic change) to a player race. Perhaps include typically unplayable races as well.
Untouched by age: Lets the Demi set their own age, a'la Shadowdance Penumbra
More languages: allows the demigod to learn more languages, perhaps even a new demigod language.
Additional divine/guild/org look/entrance/exit messages - expanded choiceentermessage/choicelook

Revisions:
Aegis: Reduce to 35 weight, 20 mil.


The admin have expressed the intent that they're not opening up Ascendant powers to everyone, sorry.

P.S. Feel free to keep pitching more ideas, all I'm really doing is adding the non-crazy OP ones to this list.

I still feel that it is possible to do something with Seals thematically (easily justified in Roleplay terms as having a connection to that Domoth because you won its seal and have it attuned to you), which allows for expanding Domoth powers to others without bending the RP too much.

The only reasoning that we had against this the last time was that 'Seals do enough already,' but consider that winning the final event gives you not only the Seal but also Ascendant, all 3 Domoth powers for free (no essence, no weight), and enhanced claim times over your own Domoth.

I really don't see an issue with allowing someone who owns the Seal to be able to purchase all 3 of the powers with that Domoth, and being able to select one of them as being weightless (which helps Demigods with lower weight as well, as they have also alluded to being against changing weights dramatically).

------

Second, just scrap the ephemeral / supernumerary thing. How many people have intentionally purchased ephemeral powers? What's the point?

Switch it to a skillflex-like system where you can activate and deactivate up to your total weight count. You can only activate up to 50 total weight in powers each day.

No more permanently forgetting / destroying powers and getting nothing back.

PS: Please help Aegis' cost. :(

I'm up for making seals be the way to get domoth powers, if there will be more powers/weight opened up for demis in general.

I agree with this supernumerary/ephemeral business. The only people who can really capitalize on it are ascendants for two reasons: One, what powers could I possibly want to only have for a bit? Planarquickening, I guess, but I don't see that being a priority for anyone ever. Two, it's way easier for Ascendants to hold higher levels of essence (assuming similar levels of bashing/dedication), they are more likely to be holding the domoths and can hold more for the passive essence money. Of course, all the Ascendant powers are obscenely expensive.

If Ephemeral powers were cheap enough I think they could see a use actually.

Xenthos:

I still feel that it is possible to do something with Seals thematically (easily justified in Roleplay terms as having a connection to that Domoth because you won its seal and have it attuned to you), which allows for expanding Domoth powers to others without bending the RP too much.

I really don't see an issue with allowing someone who owns the Seal to be able to purchase all 3 of the powers with that Domoth, and being able to select one of them as being weightless (which helps Demigods with lower weight as well, as they have also alluded to being against changing weights dramatically).

------

Second, just scrap the ephemeral / supernumerary thing. How many people have intentionally purchased ephemeral powers? What's the point?

Switch it to a skillflex-like system where you can activate and deactivate up to your total weight count. You can only activate up to 50 total weight in powers each day.

No more permanently forgetting / destroying powers and getting nothing back.

Okay, it can't hurt to ask about seals.

What if we started off conservatively and ask that sealholders get the option to buy one of the powers associated with the domoth, but carry 0 weight?

Would that be enough?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think scrapping the eph/sup system entirely is on the table, but what if eph powers cost 33% less than usual?

That would be more fitting for it and would help out.

If we can come up with new domoth specific powers to replace existing ones, can the ones getting replaced get moved into the arena of general powers for all demigods?

This is specific for things like the nature domoth Gift - it's something I imagine a number of demigods wouldn't mind having or spending weight on, specifically the non-eco herbalists, but is limited to ascendants. Worse, because ascendants are so rare and tend towards being "required" to focus on picking the most combat efficient options for their weight, there's little or no reason for an ascendant to ever bother with the gift power.

I feel like it would be better as a whole if it existed as a general demigod power. This might also extend to the beauty domoth powers too, but it might be more difficult to think up relevant replacement powers that could stand up to competing with Destruction, Havoc Cry, Judicious Presence, etc.

I guess that could work, but I'm honestly running out of ideas to put in. If anyone has ideas there, feel free to share.

I've updated the initial post with almost all of the ideas that I think we can work with.

Now it's time to review the current costs for skills already in place, so if anyone has any opinions there, you know what to do.

For now, I'll be staring at the current powers in order to revise them and adding ideas to the existing pile as needed.

I won't lie though, demigods is a much bigger project than I'd anticipated, all for a first world problem.

Aegis: 35-40 weight.

Essence costs for all Ascendant abilities: Reduce by between 25-50% (depending on ability, some more than others).

Look at the weighting for the illusions one, because that ability is just massively overpriced on all fronts.

I also don't see any harm in asking them about changing ephemeral to a skillflex-like system. If they say no, then reduced cost for buying ephemeral is an option, but it's not my preferred.

How about a Nature ascendant ability similar to the Golden Planimeter (I think? The one that allows you to ATTUNE) to replace Gift? So if you have this new ability, the Planimeter and Attune in environment you'll get access to three differently attuned environments. Alternatively, let it boost the strength of the attunement.

Xenthos:

Aegis: 35-40 weight.

Essence costs for all Ascendant abilities: Reduce by between 25-50% (depending on ability, some more than others).

Look at the weighting for the illusions one, because that ability is just massively overpriced on all fronts.

I also don't see any harm in asking them about changing ephemeral to a skillflex-like system. If they say no, then reduced cost for buying ephemeral is an option, but it's not my preferred.

Yeah sure, but reducing by 25-50% is so vague!

For utility, things that work like and stack with the commandant arties.

I am really against adding a fourth influencing attack.

I would really rather we not add new stuff to ascendants when its Demigods that need the love. I liked the idea of demigods attuning to one of the seals - perhaps we could try coming up with another 2-3 powers related to each seal that demigods could grab? Even if the system stays the same, could be a starting point for brainstorming ideas.

Personally, I would love some sort of "DemiDivineFavour" that lets you use essence to give another player a buff of one stat. Obviously they shouldn't be allowed to stack.

Sure, just brainstorm all sorts of ideas.

For utility skills, I'd like to repurpose Ragniliff's idea to become a demigod power that draws aggression from a room of angry critters to the caster instead of someone randomly when you first walk in. Doesn't work on guards, I think, but it'd be nice.

Sojiro:

Yeah sure, but reducing by 25-50% is so vague!

To remove vagueness:


Gift
10 ... 8000000
- 5 ... 5,000,000
Harvest
20 ... 12000000
- 5 ... 5,000,000
- Also make it reset on the 1st of the month.
Aegis
50 ... 25000000
- 35 ... 20,000,000
JudiciousPresence
15 ... 8000000
- 15 ... 5,000,000
EvenHandedBlessing
25 ... 12000000
- 15 ... 8,000,000
Destruction
50 ... 12000000
- 50 ... 10,000,000
HavocCry
25 ... 12000000
- 25 ... 10,000,000
Thunderclap
15 ... 8000000
- 15 ... 5,000,000
FearAura
50 ... 25000000
- 50 ... 20,000,000
DeathAura
30 ... 15000000
- 25 ... 15,000,000
Urlife
15 ... 8000000
- 10 ... 5,000,000
BreathOfLife
30 ... 20000000
- 30 ... 15,000,000
SanctityOfBody
15 ... 8000000
- 10 ... 5,000,000
PurityOfSoul
30 ... 15000000
- 25 ... 15,000,000
FortunateWindfalls
20 ... 12000000
- 5 ... 5,000,000
- Also make it reset on the 1st of the month.
Dispersal
35 ... 18000000
- 35 ... 15,000,000
CompatriotOfChaos
15 ... 8000000
- 10 ... 5,000,000
QuietMind
35 ... 18000000
- 35 ... 10,000,000
PlenipotentiaryOfPeace
15 ... 5000000
- 5 ... 2,500,000
PeacefulCompanion
25 ... 12000000
- 25 ... 5,000,000
BeauteousWorkings
15 ... 15000000
- 5 ... 5,000,000
OstensibleDreamer
50 ... 18000000
- 15 ... 5,000,000
- Possibly just remove the strengthened illusions aspect.
BeauteousThought
15 ... 80000000
- 15 ... 80,000,000
KnowledgeAwareness
30 ... 12000000
- 22 ... 9,000,000
- This power already requires buying Seek first at 8 weight and 1,000,000 essence. A total of 30 weight and 10,000,000 essence for this ability seems fair.
IntrinsicUnderstanding
40 ... 15000000
- 30 ... 10,000,000
DistantPerceptions
20 ... 10000000
- 10 ... 5,000,000


Random starting point for discussion. Newly suggested values listed beneath the current.

Hrm. Some quickly brainstormed ideas.

The ability for a Demigod to share their essence with other demigods or even mortals. Wasn't there once an Ascendant ability like this?
Generic influencing boost like the influence runes and oils?
The ability to perform illusions on a long enough balance that it won't be useful in combat?
Greatly slowed rate of becoming drunk?
Shroud like high-magic Yesod?
Honour-like regeneration in the room for your allies? It's possible to get level 3 regen anyway.

More ideas.

How about demigod bashing attacks similar to the War power Destruction, but keyed to different statistics? One for Strength, one for Dexterity, one for Constitution, one for Intelligence and one for Charisma.
The ability to extend the decay time on an object so it'll last a while longer, for when you just can't seem to find a tailor to repair your robes before they decay.
The ability to burn essence into Power in your reserves? Not active power. Just your reseves.
Custom Transverse messages?
Quickened will and endurance regeneration?

Kiradawea:

More ideas.

How about demigod bashing attacks similar to the War power Destruction, but keyed to different statistics? One for Strength, one for Dexterity, one for Constitution, one for Intelligence and one for Charisma.
The ability to extend the decay time on an object so it'll last a while longer, for when you just can't seem to find a tailor to repair your robes before they decay.
The ability to burn essence into Power in your reserves? Not active power. Just your reseves.
Custom Transverse messages?
Quickened will and endurance regeneration?

The Bashing one first. I would love that. I always fancied the past special attack that became part of the War Domoth. I would love if we could select something like that for us to enhance our hunting (perhaps it should do Divinus or Excorable damage?).

Ability to burn Essence into Power ( and vice versa?) I would love aswell. Was also once suggested the ability to share some of your essence from yourself to another ascendant Demigod? That doesnt sound too bad

More Will and Endurance regen (especially for aetherhunting) would be pretty cool too.