I like rebounding in other games, but there is little point to having it in Lusternia. In other games, the afflictions knights give are cured by the same things that their opponent's afflictions are. Here, only knights really rely on wounds, and they can't kill each other anyway. Then in other games rebounding can deal damage, but here knights don't really do damage either, especially against other knights, so rebounding isn't making an interesting damage game either. So imho it may as well be taken out from Lusternia... it's a grandfathered mechanic that has been pretty thoroughly obviated over time.

- Dodgings already been nerfed, unless you are ready to add DMP: all 20 or something I do not think dodging is going to get much worse.

- Dont scale to warriors, scale to warriors hittin the same person.

I agree on that last point. If you scale warriors in groups, don't just make them get worse as there are more warriors in the room, have it get worse the more are hitting the same person.

I really want to say something about changing the scaling of wounds in group combat and not taking it too far, but I just can't quite find the words...

Zarquan:

I really want to say something about changing the scaling of wounds in group combat and not taking it too far, but I just can't quite find the words...

"Good luck," or "I'll believe it when I see it," or "Sounds awesome!" or "meh"?

Enyalida:

I agree on that last point. If you scale warriors in groups, don't just make them get worse as there are more warriors in the room, have it get worse the more are hitting the same person.

Is there a particular reason why we're scaling warriors and not any other archetype? I refer to the discussion in report 301. Either scale everyone and everything, or no-one and nothing imo.

Raeri:


Is there a particular reason why we're scaling warriors and not any other archetype? I refer to the discussion in report 301. Either scale everyone and everything, or no-one and nothing imo.

Agreed. It would be odd to scale warrior damage/wounds in groups but allow monks to hit for full effect.

Agreed. So long as Telepath egobombing,or easily stackable manadrain exist, I see no reason to nerf warrior stacking.

In all honesty, something like scaling going in would open up chances for warriors to be more effective 1v1. A lot of improvements to warriors are shut down because of their effect in groups. The major difference between wounding and egodraining/manadraining is the way you cure it, in general, wounding has 1 way to be cured, applying health, while ego/mana has sipping/sparkle/scroll/beast/passive regen. I've actually been thinking of ways to scale down TPbombs and such and have thrown a few ideas at envoys, I may try to envoy one here in the near future, depending on druid changes and stuff.

If they did end up being scaled, it has to be determined by who they are hitting and not by much, more warriors pounding on someone should be able to outpace curing easily, just not to the extent they are now. I think adding it to warriors also gives precedent to then add it to things like TP, TK, double-haegls etc.

edit: I realize that it may seem bias, but I have a special place near and dear to my heart for warriors. I love the class and fighting as one, druid's fun, but not nearly as much so as warrior (I think it's easier to fight as druid than a warrior, just less forgiving on big mistakes). I'd really like to see warriors 1v1 viability improve while keeping their group impact in check.

You first. :P

Zarquan:

You first. :P

^

I have nothing useful to add to the discussion, and I forgot about the like button. And I can't find the delete post option.

It really depends on what we plan to adjust. Some of the RNG problems that we complain about might not play a big impact on group combat, since they generally don't play as much a role there anyhow, given how multiple warriors facilitate each other already. Things like adjusting swing rates and miss rates won't do squat to group combat.

I really also feel that the biggest change that needs to happen is that lower warriors get raised up. Leave artifact-demigod warriors where they are and raise the floor a little so that the gap isn't as big.

Other problems might be dealing with things like forced-symmetry and the way that acrobatics can really mess with, say bonecrushers. Some class-specific things might need adjusting too.

But I don't think any of these changes necessitate a rescaling of warriors...?

Re: forced symmetry. Do you actually come face-to-face with a ton of competent psymet monks who can effrctively use a FS strategy, or does the problem exist more in the theory that the skill is available? Just wondering about the reality of this in particular.

The reality is that it halves wounding on a limb at a time so burst potential is way down. A warrior getting heavy+ afflictions is very important to build and put the hurt on, so delaying it is a quite large deal actually.

Janalon:

Re: forced symmetry. Do you actually come face-to-face with a ton of competent psymet monks who can effrctively use a FS strategy, or does the problem exist more in the theory that the skill is available? Just wondering about the reality of this in particular.

Wobou. Can't build anything on him, the bastard.

Brought this up in the Envoys channel but Shuyin made me post the ideas instead.

How about making armour stats have diminishing returns, with about 65/65 (standard splendours) being what they are now. This would buff normal robe users a bit, as well as nerfing plate users a bit. I know a few warriors, such as Sidd, already had no problem dealing wounds to most splendour users, so that seems like a good place to call the "norm". Everyone knows how pointless a warrior-warrior fight is, so nerfing their armour should help somewhat, and warriors don't really struggle against normal robe users right now.

Placeholder post:

Warriors: solution 2 to 630, no miss on power abilities, dmp style armour effect.

^A proposed set of solutions from the ones made available by Ushaara.

Malarious yelled at me for posting about warriors in the monk thread so I thought I should transplant the ideas to the proper place:

The vast majority of my ideas for warriors are stolen from others and are already up there. I think that the most important things are to nerf armor and fix swing ratios. One thing to note too is that if armor is nerfed in some other way than making wounding not be dependent upon it then shield runes should also be nerfed.

I think that the majority of the other ideas presented should probably not be evaluated at the same time as those two changes. For example I don't think a nerf to parry and stance would be necessary if wounds were normalized and swing ratios were changed. Balancing warriors in group combat will probably be an issue regardless of armor or swing changes though.

Turnus:


Wobou. Can't build anything on him, the bastard.

Forcedsymmetry is a gamble but it tends to work out well for me. If it stops you from getting tendoned/hindered/proned/blah then it works out because you've gained a much more minor (if any) affliction and your offense will then buy you time to heal. Against someone like Ixion who was tendoning me regardless it hurts quite a bit because it assists him in double tendoning. He's the definition of the word outlier though. :P

Not much has been said to the issue of warriors in groups so far, who scale amazingly well for behead instakills.

There has been talk about making warrior wounds scale to groups, actually. I support making warriors do less wounding against someone who is being targeted by multiple people, in combination with pickmeups elsewhere and a general flattening of outliers, both high and low.