I'm kind of hesitant to make a suggestion that might make taurian a flatly better race than humans. We already dropped humans about as far as we're comfortable with, I think, so that's not an option either.

I'd be happy with enrage lasting significantly longer than it currently does. As is, enrage lasts like every 15-20 seconds or so and consumes a second or two of balance each time you put it up. It's not reasonable to expect someone to keep re-raising in fights in addition to everything else they need to do to consume balance/eq, and I don't think giving enrage a bazillion buffs until that regular, frequent loss seems fine is smart either.

How about just making enrage last 2-3 minutes? Then a mandatory cooldown time or something.

Sounds reasonable to me. I didn't know it lasted for such a short time.

Would definitely make it more interesting if the duration were so lengthened.

When I suggested races, I was pretty much thinking of things like Tae'dae speed, or Merian/Mugwump maluses, that just don't work. Are we really going to look into everything that isn't top of the line and fiddle with it?

I don't see the harm in ASKING administration to make the subpar races strong enough to at least stand in mid-tier combat. The admins always hav the authority to reject changes for races that they believe to be fine.

Sylphas:

When I suggested races, I was pretty much thinking of things like Tae'dae speed, or Merian/Mugwump maluses, that just don't work. Are we really going to look into everything that isn't top of the line and fiddle with it?

From my understanding, no. The thread was doomed to be hijacked from the get go.

However, the large bulk of races are mostly functional, and the pork-barrel politics style suggestions will hopefully be ignored!

Feel free to voice your opinions on whichever races you feel need to be addressed in this report.

I personally feel that only Tae'Dae and Igasho are bad to the point of being unplayable as is, and thus are the only races that NEED be addressed. If Shuyin is sticking with is Bottom 5 idea though, my votes fall to Viscanti (significantly less attractive than Human; at least until Demigod, where they are slightly more preferable), Mugwump (for all intents and purposes an unspecced and unspeccable Merian), and Orclach (a few too many weaknesses; crippling weakness to Fire, Mana Drain, and Ego Drain). The other races I don't feel are so bad that they NEED fixing.

That said, I would PREFER if we sent all of our suggestions to administration, in the hopes that we do as much good for racial balance as possible. There is no more harm in sending ten racial suggestions than there is in sending five.

I reckon that of all the races, tae'dae and igasho are the only two clear candidates for being at the bottom of the pile, because of their excessive bal/eq maluses.. If I had to throw in another, it'd be orclach and MAYBE krokani, because they are instakill bait.

Looking at the other "warrior" races including taurian, dwarf and loboshigaru, we already see a lot of loboshigaru and the difference between taurian/dwarf and loboshigaru isn't all that great.

I find it really hard to believe merian (particularly specced) and mugwump are any worse than a race like furrikin, for example. If the problem is with seasinger merian then I'm sorry, but irontongue viscanti have it even worse than you.

There are a lot of races people are just estimating because there is a better min-max option, but you can never eliminate that with such a system with the diverse set of races.

Irontongue viscanti is good.

In any case, I see no harm in putting together a list of desired changes and letting either Sojiro or the admin pick it apart themselves to decide what's needed on a race by race basis.

As a tae'dae player, this is making me glad that I forgot to cancel my iron membership :P

But, asking permission to make a suggestion still strikes me as pointless. Can't they just say no to either one, just as quickly? :P I would think that if they said no mechanical changes, they probably meant they don't want huge wall of text ideas that seek to rework the whole game. I really doubt that they meant "don't suggest really simple things if they could be viewed as more mechanical than another suggestion which might in fact take longer to code."

Lothringen:

Irontongue viscanti is good.

10 Dex, 14 Int, 12 (intrinsically buffable 15 with song up) to Charisma on a bard is good? That's pretty low end, especially for a spec race.

Jello:

As a tae'dae player, this is making me glad that I forgot to cancel my iron membership :P

I'm looking forward to finally returning to my Tae'dae! I have nearly 1k membership credits saved up for his return

Jello:

But, asking permission to make a suggestion still strikes me as pointless. Can't they just say no to either one, just as quickly? :P I would think that if they said no mechanical changes, they probably meant they don't want huge wall of text ideas that seek to rework the whole game. I really doubt that they meant "don't suggest really simple things if they could be viewed as more mechanical than another suggestion which might in fact take longer to code."

We can always send it as an alternate suggestion too.

foolofsound:

10 Dex, 14 Int, 12 (intrinsically buffable 15 with song up) to Charisma on a bard is good? That's pretty low end, especially for a spec race.

You get 19 charisma (at demigod), awesome resists/tankiness, and a song that offsets sip malus with h/m/e regeneration. It's definitely a fine option as-is for Cacophony, along with faeling and brewmeister dwarf.

19 Charisma?

Racial Base 10
Irontongue Spec +2 unweighted
Bardic Presence +2 weighted
Vile Blood +3 weighted
-----------------------------------------
5 weighted = +3
That's a total of 15 charisma without demi buffs, blessings, or limited skillsets.

And in any case, the changes proposed will only increase Irontongue Cha by 1.

Er, now I'm second-guessing myself. It's possible I made that up, though when I was irontongue viscanti and champion I could have sworn I had at least 17... Are you sure vileblood is weighted? Hmm. I could be wrong.

Even then, I was one myself for a significant amount of time and found it perfectly fine. The only reason I eventually switched to faeling was to improve influencing.

Edit: If Vileblood is in fact unweighted, that would give 17 +1 for Titan and +1 for demipower, which may have been what I was thinking.

Anyway, I feel irontongue viscanti is a legitimate option as-is. You sacrifice a bit of damage from charisma for being far tankier.

Edit #2: So many edits, sorry.

I'm actually not certain that VileBlood is weighted. I believe it is, but don't have a method to test it.

Testing: If you have someone put it up do they gain 2 or 3? Weights mean it gives +2 base or +3 if unweighted.

By the way, we are talking a full Viscanti right?
Racials: 10 base + 2 spec + 1 titan + 1 demigod = 14
Weights: 3 vileblood + 2 throne + 2 bardicpresence + (1 netzach / domoth / yada). which would put you at 19 total.

I did not find Viscanti too bad as a bard, although that and guardian are probably their best specs. Warrior is kind of meh.

Worst Races:
1) Tae'dae
2) Merian
3) Igasho
4) Mugwump
5) Orclach
6) Taurian

Most are obvious Orclach is too insta'able and its huge fire weakness isnt really offset. I think Krokani has a bait stat as well, but I do not know that we will fix all of them. I would like to see taurian as a 6th choice because it does not pose a better choice for much of anything. If nothing else increasing the time enrage lasted would be very nice. Anyway...yeah my biased two cents for taurian.

I still want the high end Cha races modified so that one race isn't obviously superior in influencing to all others. I still want more Influencing bonuses handed out so Influencing isn't basically "go faeling and go to town".

How about giving Orclach a boost to intimidation influence and Taurian a boost to Weakening influence?

While I like that idea, I don't think that Shuyin will go for it at all...
I would like to see lower Cha races at least have a CHANCE to influence, especially since it is required for so many quests..

I think I'm more inclined to making the poorer races 'do what they do better' rather than 'make them equally compatible to do everything or basically, human'.

Malarious:

Testing: If you have someone put it up do they gain 2 or 3? Weights mean it gives +2 base or +3 if unweighted.

By the way, we are talking a full Viscanti right?
Racials: 10 base + 2 spec + 1 titan + 1 demigod = 14
Weights: 3 vileblood + 2 throne + 2 bardicpresence + (1 netzach / domoth / yada). which would put you at 19 total.

I did not find Viscanti too bad as a bard, although that and guardian are probably their best specs. Warrior is kind of meh.

I suppose that a 17 Int, 19 Cha bard with Viscanti level tankness isn't so bad, even if you need demi to get there. Removed Irontongue from my suggestions.