I suggested an "Anti-Surge" ability, perhaps in High/Low Magic or Discipline, that allows you to trade 33% Max HP for 33% Max MP. Alternatively, add an ability in Athletics and possibly Psychometabolism that gives resist to mana drain MagiCrown or Nature Torc style.



Any thoughts?

foolofsound:

I suggested an "Anti-Surge" ability, perhaps in High/Low Magic or Discipline, that allows you to trade 33% Max HP for 33% Max MP. Alternatively, add an ability in Athletics and possibly Psychometabolism that gives resist to mana drain MagiCrown or Nature Torc style.

Any thoughts?

The second idea cannot be used in conjunction with Surge, for balance reasons (just clarifying, since I made the same point in the other thread when it was brought up). Races with low->middling health, middling->high int would really benefit greatly from that combined with surge... throw in a sip bonus and the whole thing becomes very appealing.

I should have clarified: yes, either of these ideas should probably be mutually exclusive with Surge.

foolofsound:

I suggested an "Anti-Surge" ability, perhaps in High/Low Magic or Discipline, that allows you to trade 33% Max HP for 33% Max MP. Alternatively, add an ability in Athletics and possibly Psychometabolism that gives resist to mana drain MagiCrown or Nature Torc style.

Any thoughts?

I would much rather give stat buffs than make any sort of % increase in mana or a MagiCrown-like ability available, because stat buffs have a much greater marginal utility at the low end than at the top end, wheras this isn't necessarily true for the %-type changes (the marginal utility at the low end is still going to be higher than the top end, but not to such a dramatic extent). Some pre-existing health/ego buffs could be changed to have an exclusionary mana buffing option, so that casters can't get the best of both worlds with buffed health -and- more mana/INT; the races vulnerable to mana kills are generally tanky already, so the marginal utility of the health increase is greatly diminished. The third consideration I'd like to put forward is that this shouldn't be an easily toggleable thing, so you can't easily min/max against the specific threat being faced ("oh, the wiccan's dead, I'll switch off anti-surge").

Quick question. Why not have multiple race specializations like Hallifax does, to bring up the subpar races? For example, add mugwump to the specializations that Celest could have?

It's very much possible that the currently non-specced races are already slated for being specced in potential future org releases. Frex, Tae'dae and Furrikin in Ackleberry seem quite likely (I think those are the right ones). Additionally, races are generally specced with orgs based on combined org and racial histories, which afaik none of the races really have in-depth with existing orgs (though my lore knowledge is admittedly limited).

"Frex"? Interesting. (From the context I can pick up what you're going at with it...)

Anyways, Elfen have a history in Glomdoring and Faeling have a history in Serenwilde, so it wouldn't be too out of line for them to 'share' those races. The only awkward thing would be trying to explain how Serenwilde Faelings can spec into warriors, since it's such a large divergence for the race. It's explained on the Shadowy-side due to the Wyrd and the warping of the faeling race.

However, I do not think they want to share spec races, and those are the only ones that really make sense for the two communes as further racial specializations.

Hey, we have a small mugwump population (of one). We also have an Igasho!

It would be interesting, and you could do some RP loop-the-loops to make it work for most orgs.

As Xen mentioned, faelings/elfen work for the existing communes. As far as warrior specs go for our pretend seren faeling knights, well, the animals Seren associates with tend to be robust, there's room under the lore to come up with something. Really though, speccing elfen would be a particular boon to Glomdoring, given their back ground, families, etc.

Magnagora has a historical link with Orclach, and even Taurian that could be used and abused in our hypothetical situation. (A Taruian bard spec! More cowbell!)

Celest is sorta... harder. The above mentioned mugwumps don't have any particularly strong RP ties, and mechanically, would just be like merians, only slightly faster and slighty squishier. Historically, Orclach probably work there too, but its much more of a fragile link than the obvious and strong one with Mag. Could do something with dwarves for an odd sense of parity, and perhaps a throw back to the old imperial days, but honestly, since Celest was "merian and then a cosmopolitian mix of most other things", just about anything is a stretch.

Gaudi seems to be the least diverse of the cities, and would be the biggest stretch for any hypothetical races being added in. We'd almost need to discover/create a new race.

I'm not sure Estarra would appreciate us ad-libbing history in order to add additional race specs; that said, races with existing ties to orgs could easily be specced. Orclachs for Mag, Krokani for Celeste (pretty sure a bunch of them were Paladins back in the day), possible Shadow Elfen and Moon/Stag Faelings for the respective forests. Dunno about Gaudi though.

Not sure it's in the confines of the report to add a second spec race to every org though.

Yeah, we're not going to ad lib history or are inclined add more race specs.

Yes, let's avoid adding spec races and new races please. That's not even anywhere close to 'simple', neither is it within the potential issues in this report.

And there you have it.

We need to concentrate on making races more viable without specs.

My preferred solutions to the Bottom 5 with multiple suggestions:
Tae'dae
- Increase Dex to 9.
- Reduce Balance Penalty to Lv1.
- Reduce Cutting Resistance to Lv2
- Reduce Blunt Resistance to Lv2
- Reduce Psychic Resistance to Lv1.

Merian
- Increase Constitution to 11.
- Reduce Fire Weakness to Lv1
- Reduce Merian Lord spec Constitution modifier to +4.

Orclach
- Increase Int to 10
- Increase Dex to 14
- Reduce Fire Weakness to Lv2.

I am now e-slapping those of you who feel bickering and skipping posts is more productive than being involved if you truly want to be involved. If you don't know who I mean, you are probably one of them.

Viscanti was fine for my purposes, why did I not stay Viscanti? I am generally aiming for speed which Viscanti do not have. Viscanti have a sip penalty to offset their high resists, but they have high con as a base so thats not too bad. Their weakness is primarily in the brood Viscanti area, and honestly I cannot see anyone who would pick Viscanti as a choice before Aslaran or human, there is just little motivation to beyond RP (get a hat).

As for my suggestions I looked at the races again given the following information to be assumed:
1) Most advantages are to offset stats in some way.
2) Most disadvantages are to make up for uncompromised advantages.
3) Nothing should pay for the same bonus twice, adjust bonus if this comes up

Included is a short blurb on the logic for it.

Tae'Dae
-2 balance penalty
-1 cutting resist
-1 blunt resist
-1 sip bonus
+1 dex

I dont feel like lvl 2 balance would still be usable, so I adjusted sipping as well as resists to remove some tankiness. The dex points a freebie because of warrior mechanics.

Igasho
-1 balance penalty
-1 magic resist
-1 cutting resist

I agree with ixion mostly, but if left as it it just becomes a tankier version of tae'dae so I had to change that.


Orclach
+2 int
-1 cold resist
-1 fire weakness
-1 cutting resist.

Take these for what they are worth I just tried to balance adjustments a little. The int is to bring to subpar instead of horrible. And cold resist swapped for fire weakness. I still wish they had 10 cha and int but thats not likely to happen. They are low stat monks, and theres better options for monks to tank without the bad stas.

Merian
+1 con
-1 merian lord con
-1 eletric weakness
-1 cha

Not sure why their cha is so high. but with int/cha that high they could make some scary bards since they also have lvl 2 eq, so I am reducing their cha in exchange for electric weakness.

Mugwump
+1 con
-1 fire weakness
-1 electric weakness
-1 dex

Again, slightly higher con, but lowering a weakness. Most things dont cause heavy electric dmage but merian will be Dex reduced to be fair for the double resist drop.

Just my two cents and probably at least partially flawed, anyway there ya go.

Seeing as we haven't had a response in days, perhaps we should get to deciding on solutions.

Tae'dae:
Reduce Balance Penalty to Lv1
Reduce Blunt Resistance to Lv2
Reduce Cutting Resistance to Lv2
Reduce Sip Bonus to Lv1
Increase Dexterity to 9

Fair enough. Tae'dae are still going to be tanks even losing a level of Sip Bonus, and the Balance Penalty reduction should give them an offense.

Mugwump:
Increase Constitution to 11
Reduce Fire Weakness to Lv1
Reduce Electric Weakness to Lv2

Don't feel that Mugwumps need to give up a point of Dex for these changes; they already have somewhat lame stats.

Igasho:
- Reduce Balance Penalty to Lv1
- Reduce Magic Resistance to Lv1
- Reduce Cutting resistance to Lv1

Fair enough. Having a Blademaster racial spec makes up for the lower reduced tankiness.

Merian:
- Increase Constitution to 11.
- Reduce Fire Weakness to Lv1
- Reduce Merian Lord spec Constitution modifier to +4.

Merians are supposed to be somewhat squishy; they have rather impressive caster stats as well as EQ bonus. Besides, it's not as though Fire or Electric DMP is difficult to come by. Aquamancers have access to ForceField and Celestines are annoying to kill regardless. Bards are still going to be squishy, but they aslo have excellent Bard stats.

Orclach:
- Increase Int to 10
- Increase Dex to 14
- Reduce Fire Weakness to Lv2.
- Reduce Magic Resistance to Lv1

A little extra Int to deal with manadrain, and a little extra Dex to make them better warriors. Fire and Magic are both common damage types, so I feel that trading one for the other is a fine tradeoff.

Also big no to the mana drain resistance, the point of a weakness is to have a weakness not have several ways around it entirely. I have little DMP, I get dodge, this does not mean I need to add DMP nor does it mean I clearly need my damage tripled. Warriors only have low mana readily if they surge, and why do you want 11K mana warriors when against mana guilds? Tsk

My suggestion was merely an alternative to raising the Int of all sub-par Int races in order to prevent murder by manadrain.

Monks have access to the great DMP and other defenses offered by Psymet OR the impressive offensive and defensive capabilities of Acrobatics. Comparatively, warriors coming from a moderately high Int, low Con race can choose to make themselves resistant to Heath damage or Mana damage at their leisure through Surge; why should we not allow high Con, low Int races to do the same with their own variation on the skill?

Because high-con low-int races tend to have other advantages as well? Such as, say, high strength.

You need to clarify more, because your reasoning is not very compelling in its current incarnation.

And low Con, high Int races tend to have Balance bonuses?

Aslaran and Faelings, both considered fairly good warriors, are able to cover for their low Con weakness through the use of Surge and a high Int score (Faeling more than Aslaran, but the point stands). Further, if they expect to fight manadrain, then they simply leave Surge off, leaving them with resistance to manakills.

Now I ask, why should a race with high Con and low Int (Tae'Dae, Igasho, Orclach, Krokani, Dwarf) who, yes, have the advantage of high Str, but also have the disadvantages of low Dex, Cha, and/or Balance not be able to choose to cover for one weakness at the cost of resistance to another, just as Aslarans and Faelings can do with Surge?

foolofsound:

And low Con, high Int races tend to have Balance bonuses?

Aslaran and Faelings, both considered fairly good warriors, are able to cover for their low Con weakness through the use of Surge and a high Int score (Faeling more than Aslaran, but the point stands). Further, if they expect to fight manadrain, then they simply leave Surge off, leaving them with resistance to manakills.

Now I ask, why should a race with high Con and low Int (Tae'Dae, Igasho, Orclach, Krokani, Dwarf) who, yes, have the advantage of high Str, but also have the disadvantages of low Dex, Cha, and/or Balance not be able to choose to cover for one weakness at the cost of resistance to another, just as Aslarans and Faelings can do with Surge?

Doesn't Hod in highmagic act as like a mana vitality?

I think warriors having the ability to counteract low intelligence just seems... awkward. They are warriors, not mages, it makes sense that they can substitute mana for health but not vise versa. Warriors are known for their big brawny massive health, not their mana pools, it doesn't really make any sense to have them be able to swell their mana reserves. There are plenty of ways to buff mana if they feel the need to, much like people feel the need to buff health. Blessings, knowledge karma, life runes etc. It just doesn't make sense RP wise to have a mana protecting skill.

Also, Faelings and Aslaran with surge run a significant risk of getting manakilled, but if they don't surge, they have significantly lower health pools than say a tae'dae/igasho.