Lilia:
You do get commodities back, but only real commodities, like metal and gems. You won't get any wax back.

tested it. A bloody needle was smelted. Was made with 1 redtint and one bloodstone. The bloodstone should have returned, but didn't. If I remember correctly, you can't melt trinkets and get a return on them.

edit:

Here is something that would save a jeweler.

Let esteem from figurines be transferred over to needles. If you offer, you lose the item.
Instead of a bonus of offering from a lvl 40 figurine, why not have esteem that has been moved from a figurine to a needle be worth more, if transferred from a lvl 40 figurine versus a lvl 1 figurine.

This way, you can hoard your esteem in a figurine, level it up, and place your esteem in needles. Those needles would retain their original worth, which would no longer backhand a novice jeweler from making money. And at the same time, it would place emphasis on getting a higher level figurine.

I'm actually surprised such a major change in mechanics was just given a note buried in a Bug Fixes/Changes post--usually Estarra herself would explain the reason for that change.

Although remember, people did ask to change gold demand and supply, I guess this is one way to do it.

As well as make figurines useful again.

Just destroy the needles in your local nexus. They would have been destroyed when used anyway.

Also jewellers really shouldn't worry since even before esteem existed they were one of the more profitable professions.

Agreed. I don't think that jewelers are the victims here. Low-end influencers are, now that overhead on selling their esteem has drastically increased.

Jeweler profit comes from cutting gems and selling powerstones, not the mild markup you can put on needles.

Anisu:

Just destroy the needles in your local nexus. They would have been destroyed when used anyway.

Also jewellers really shouldn't worry since even before esteem existed they were one of the more profitable professions.

They were one of the more profitable professions because of trinkets at lower levels, and rings at higher. Not talking about craft location wise, but the amount of time that lasts on a ring, it's more valuable to the customer to buy from a trans jeweler, than one at master. Trinkets though don't follow that law, so a jeweler can make money at the lower levels from cutting gems, selling cut gems, or selling trinkets.

edit:

FoolofSound. That mild markup makes more money than anything else in jewelry. It's a 70 gold profit. What other low skill in the other trades make as much en bulk? 100 needles. cost 3000 gold to create. Profit? 7k gold. Sparkles, for being a trans skill, sold at 40 gold? sell 100, 4k gold. The difference between sparkles, a trans skill, and a novice skill of selling needles is 6k.

Falcon:

tested it. A bloody needle was smelted. Was made with 1 redtint and one bloodstone. The bloodstone should have returned, but didn't. If I remember correctly, you can't melt trinkets and get a return on them.

Did you check on the floor? That's where the comms go. I've melted a few and gotten my coral back.

Falcon:


They were one of the more profitable professions because of trinkets at lower levels, and rings at higher. Not talking about craft location wise, but the amount of time that lasts on a ring, it's more valuable to the customer to buy from a trans jeweler, than one at master. Trinkets though don't follow that law, so a jeweler can make money at the lower levels from cutting gems, selling cut gems, or selling trinkets.

It had nothing to do with trinkets (since it is a reply to my post I assume you read the before esteem existed part). The majority should be making their gold in gemcuts by itself. And yes higher skill means higher profit, but you can still make a profit with lower skills. Especially if you are allied to Hallifax.

Though if one is trying to make a fortune in gold, then the tradeskills in themselves are a bad choice as straight up hunting or charity influencing is a lot faster.

Falcon, let's be honest, you're half the reason this even went through, so don't complain about it.

Not helping Rika. No need to point fingers. Besides, if this gets fixed I'm going to love this update, so glory be to Falcon.

rika:

Falcon, let's be honest, you're half the reason this even went through, so don't complain about it.

Why? I raised the prices of esteem to match the credit prices. I paid more for novices selling esteem, so they can make money, and I sold at 1k more than what I bought at. Bought how many needles, generated more work for those interested... bah.

Not thinking about myself here by the way. I don't want jewelry to turn into an artisan.

Jewellery is fine. It was already the best craft-based tradeskill, by a long shot. Gemcutting is still more profitable than all the other craft-based tradeskills put together.

Most of the complaints are making mountains out of molehills.

What's the problem here? L1 figurines are really easy and cheap to get, you can fight it up to level 10 or so easy enough for a really cheap 50% offer bonus. When fig->fig transfer becomes available you can store all esteem in one item and siphon some off for offering and keep the other for sanc/defiling.

If you get 10 million units that's over a -billion- in essence offerings that's easily doubled+ by this change (+200% at level 40 which is a huge time/money investment but it gives those rich hardcore offerers something to shoot for). If you offer 3 billion essence think about the backflips your divine will do and the insane half a RL year truefavour you might get from it.

I think we all agree the thousands upon thousands of needles in item bloat being removed to help reduce lag is a good thing, and as a bonus figurines will get used more. We just have to adjust to this, stocking shops with figurines and orgs will have to stock a good couple dozen for sanc/defiling but that seems worth it for less lag IMO.

I'd personally prefer a figurine artifact rune? that lets you have a resetting one so you don't have to upkeep and resets to level 1 on offering because i abhor upkeep, but it's not that big of a deal. 1 master figurine +tons of level 1's isn't unbearable to get/manage.

Transferring was just put in, actually. 5% loss of transfer between two figurines.

Phred:

I'm actually surprised such a major change in mechanics was just given a note buried in a Bug Fixes/Changes post--usually Estarra herself would explain the reason for that change.

Although remember, people did ask to change gold demand and supply, I guess this is one way to do it.

As well as make figurines useful again.

Because it was a bug! It had been flagged an emergency bug for a long time because it caused Lusternia serious problems when someone held 20k needles in their inventory and then caused more major problems when there were tens of thousands of needles dumped in shops. For those who think that we shouldn't fix what wasn't broken... well, it was SERIOUSLY broken!

Even though it was an emergency bug, we were running through all sorts of possible fixes, including putting caps on shop inventories and personal inventories (which we will probably do anyway re personal inventories). I was fuming at one point where we were considering destroying all needles in the land and raising the price of trinkets, etc. to the point where it wouldn't be financially feasible to make tens of thousands of items.

In any event, we finally settled on this system which I think will work out fine. Yes, it will take some time to adjust to it and we may make more tweaks, but overall I think it's a pretty neat system and in a few months I bet people will wonder what the fuss was about.

^

It does address the problem with storerooms, but it dosn't change supply in demand, except raise the entry costs for the littles, which is more of the same problem.

I think the system would be a lot cooler if it was taken farther, and figurines weren't just another disposable thing to store esteem, a much much more expensive container.

Estarra:

...when someone held 20k needles in their inventory...

WHAT?

Good lord; that raises another question for me: Why were there such enormous stockpiles? And why wasn't that devaluing Esteem? Market control? If so there are other problems...

See also: Falcon.

Miniatures can last indefinetly, needles can't.
Miniatures can hold more esteem, needles have a limit.
Offering keeps the original miniature, needles are disposable.
-----
The amount of people who buy miniatures will reach a limit at a certain point.
The amount of needles that are bought at intervals lasts indefinetly.


.....
I'm sorry Estarra for over stocking

foolofsound:

WHAT?

Good lord; that raises another question for me: Why were there such enormous stockpiles? And why wasn't that devaluing Esteem? Market control? If so there are other problems...

Was going take a vacation from Lusty for a few months, and by looking at how fast 2k needles sold, if I stocked 20k needles, then by the time I was back, then the last needle should have been sold a month before I came back. And it wasn't devaluing esteem because they were unesteemed needles.