I don't like a 250 limit because it stops you from well stocking even a single thing, if that thing happens to be say... origami.

Yeah. This change will hit very differently depending on trade. Herbalists won't notice anything at all, most alchemists and poisonists won't either. Jewellers, tailors and bookbinders will be hit much harder. I'd definitely support the 500-item limit instead of the 250-item limit to give them a break, even though I'm not affected by the change at all.

The current suggestion is that people can stock more than the 250 (or whatever) limit, but that items will still decay no?

I like the idea of org shops having a higher limit than aethershops for two reasons.

1. To give a reason for people to shop around there instead of just going to a manse and using aethersearch commands to find what they need.
2. There's a hard limit on the number of org shops.

I also think making amputated arms, legs, scalps, and ears decay even in shops is a good idea. Heads that have been shrunk or turned into trophies probably shouldn't though.

No, the current idea is a soft-limit of 250 items. At or below that, items won't decay, but if you stock more than 250, all items will start to decay.

Could we make origami riftable? That would solve that particular problem. Perhaps food too, since that has such short decay time.

Enyalida:

I don't like a 250 limit because it stops you from well stocking even a single thing, if that thing happens to be say... origami.

Exactly. If stockrooms had a flat 250 item limit, we could stock only 13 of each type of vial, and that's IF that's the only type of item we stocked - AND that's excluding any security sigils. Most people, even non-combatants, would want more than 13 of their desired vial type, since there are more than 13 types of curatives to fill them with. And really who is going to pay 1000 credits just so they can stock 13 of each vial and nothing else? I don't see how anyone can honestly say that's reasonable. Nor can you say with a straight face that 13 of each type of vial and no other wares at all is a Wal Mart or "everything you ever wanted" to stock.

If there will be a limit, I fully support the idea of stepping down to it gradually rather than going from unlimited straight to 250 or whatever). It's unrealistic to expect us to be able to suddenly sell thousands of items that have already been for sale. We can't force people to buy them overnight, and we shouldn't have to delete 3/4 of our stock with no compensation.

A thought regarding the masses of needles still in stock: needles only JUST became unnecessary for esteem. Perhaps we should give it a little more time for them to phase out, while we look at our options? Also has the change where we don't see stock when we enter the stockroom helped at all?

Eventru, thanks for explaining about rifting. I understand that items with differences such as stats couldn't be rifted, but what about empty vials? You mentioned decay but herbs and such have a decay time when they are outrifted too; why aren't they considered decay items? I have practically zero knowledge of coding so I apologize if my questions are dumb. Just trying to help by offering ideas.

Making vials riftable would create massive loopholes. For instance, you could just inr/outr the vial to get it up to full months again (after all, the rift doesn't keep track of months left). I'm not sure how the code looks, of course, but the only course I could possibly see as working is to create a vial _in the rift_, and once outrifted, it could never again be inrifted. It's possible (or even probable) that would cause problems with other things though.

The question really is why would you stock multiple vial types, most people neurotic enough to vial code their curatives have the glasswork skill in arts and can easily buy cut gems instead. The grand majority of people though really do not care what their vials are made off and selling 20 of one type will satisfy them as long as multiple stores stock this.

Also I am confident the philosophy behind items being inrifteable is, when you use them they are gone. With a vial this isn't true, I fill it, I use it until 5 days decay, inrift, outrift and bam new free vial.

For all other items (like food) you must consider the fact that there are so many different designs that it would not be plausible to create rift code for every single one of them.

PS: the selling of items isn't overnight, you can be reducing stock massively right now.

Spitballing an idea here, and likely quite a controversial change (also more related to large personal inventories rather than shop inventories), but how about the idea of a weight limit on the amount you can carry? I typically have somewhere around 360 items on me, made up of around 160 vials, 40 kegs, armour, weapons and miscellaneous other things.

If we could deposit items in the city/commune bank vaults (essentially noting decay time and writing info to a database, while removing from the game), and have items have reduced decay time when in the vault, it would make people to think about how much they are carrying, encourage increased use of city/commune banks, and you could then add things like a new beast ability that allows you to stick saddlepacks on them to boost your carry limit?

Will let others argue as to what a suitable weight limit could be, but could potentially eliminate, for argument's sake, say 100 items per character from the game?

So what about when you go out hunting and end up carrying a ton of corpses?

So as shop owners, our personal responsibility is greater now. Give us a week or two to shift out the stock that we don't need, or cut down on the stocks that we have en mass, do a count of the total items, and basically police ourselves to keep our shops under a total of 80k items? Can we see if that would work instead of slapping restrictions on everyone?

Ssaliss and Anisu -- Thank you for those points. I was thinking maybe only full-month vials could be rifted, but yeah it does get complicated... Oh, another REALLY good idea, for a lot of reasons, would be what Xyas mentioned a few pages back: make vials hold 200 sips instead of 50. I remember when Achaea made this change. They quadrupled the herb costs at the same time, too.

Anisu, have you ever stocked a shop? Particularly an aethershop? I sell about 50 vials a day, and people DO buy in bulk of the same type. Just today someone bought about 25 jades. I wasn't being frivolous when I posted, that IS how shops work, from almost 2 years of personal experience with shopkeeping both in a commune and at the plex.

Oh and can someone please respond to the "tally" idea? Just wondering if it's even feasible from a coding standpoint, what the challenges would be, etc.

Kiradawea:

So what about when you go out hunting and end up carrying a ton of corpses?

Corpses would likely remain outside such a carry limit change since they naturally decay and total number is static for the most part. Or orders could erect grottos in popular hunting areas for convenient offering of corpses?

Falcon:

So as shop owners, our personal responsibility is greater now. Give us a week or two to shift out the stock that we don't need, or cut down on the stocks that we have en mass, do a count of the total items, and basically police ourselves to keep our shops under a total of 80k items? Can we see if that would work instead of slapping restrictions on everyone?

Yeah, I don't trust players to be able to do this. It would become a constant battle between shop owners and admins as shop owners keep pushing the limit as far as they can. Better to implement hard limits and wash ourselves of this business rather than fight the same battle again and again.

Aubrey:

Ssaliss and Anisu -- Thank you for those points. I was thinking maybe only full-month vials could be rifted, but yeah it does get complicated... Oh, another REALLY good idea, for a lot of reasons, would be what Xyas mentioned a few pages back: make vials hold 200 sips instead of 50. I remember when Achaea made this change. They quadrupled the herb costs at the same time, too.

Anisu, have you ever stocked a shop? Particularly an aethershop? I sell about 50 vials a day, and people DO buy in bulk of the same type. Just today someone bought about 25 jades. I wasn't being frivolous when I posted, that IS how shops work, from almost 2 years of personal experience with shopkeeping both in a commune and at the plex.

I currently own 3 aethershops, and managed a city shop for 2 rl years.

Buying a large collection of a single type of vial isn't really indicative that they care about the type. When I need 25 vials, and you have 25 vials of a type I'll buy those because it is an easy single command not because the group is jade. If you only sell 50 vials a day, you only need to stock 50 vials a day. Do not forget there are a large number of other shops out there.

Whoa, let's not limit inventories. I carry nearly 200 vials, and all full of things I use all the time. Not to mention that weights on items are all over the place, there would have to be a major rework of a lot of things if those suddenly meant something.

Anisu:

I currently own 3 aethershops, and managed a city shop for 2 rl years.

Buying a large collection of a single type of vial isn't really indicative that they care about the type. When I need 25 vials, and you have 25 vials of a type I'll buy those because it is an easy single command not because the group is jade. If you only sell 50 vials a day, you only need to stock 50 vials a day. Do not forget there are a large number of other shops out there.

My point is, even if I stocked only 10 of each type, leaving room for 100 more items (a set of kegs for curatives would take up a good portion of that alone), I'd have to log in a few times a day just to replenish stock. And that's because I'm fortunate enough to have the arts ability. If I was stocking origami, forget it, I can't track down a bookbinder every single day. It's unrealistic, no one wants to - or necessarily CAN - spend hours a day just stocking their shop.

Sorry to be a pest but one more thing I'd like a reply on, if possible - the multiple-shops-in-a-manse idea? Thanks.

I'd also like to bring up the question. Everyone's saying how hard it will be to get rid of their inventories quickly and they'll lose all these products and it'd be too hard to bring it down to 250 items. Yet then they go on to say that they're selling a ton of items and they need to be able to stock 100+ of origami and such because they sell them so quickly. I'm confused on how it's so hard to bring your inventories down then?

I agree with a previous poster. I'd rather be able to play the game without lag, even if it means having to go to multiple shops to get what I want.

Xyas:

I'd also like to bring up the question. Everyone's saying how hard it will be to get rid of their inventories quickly and they'll lose all these products and it'd be too hard to bring it down to 250 items. Yet then they go on to say that they're selling a ton of items and they need to be able to stock 100+ of origami and such because they sell them so quickly. I'm confused on how it's so hard to bring your inventories down then?

I agree with a previous poster. I'd rather be able to play the game without lag, even if it means having to go to multiple shops to get what I want.

I could probably get rid of my vials within a game year or so, but I also have a lot of flowers and clothes stocked, which sell more slowly - especially the clothes. I put thousands and thousands of gold and a lot of time into designing and sewing those items.