Do people actually even buy vials? Just get the gems and make them, its rather low in arts skill. And even if you don't have it somebody from your org does.

Turnus:

Do people actually even buy vials? Just get the gems and make them, its rather low in arts skill. And even if you don't have it somebody from your org does.

As I said, yes they do. Lots.

Turnus:

Do people actually even buy vials? Just get the gems and make them, its rather low in arts skill. And even if you don't have it somebody from your org does.

Eh most people buy them out of basic laziness, even I do on my trans arts jeweler >.>

If stores stop stocking them I'll probably poke my GAs to stock some in the guild tutor shop so novices can get cheap ones. Very few of those stores come near 250 items

I agree. A limit is totally cool, as long as it respects that some things must be stocked in bulk because it just isn't viable to come and stock your shop all day. So, things like origami and enchantments would have to be poked at with a very low limit.

Enchantments are admittedly something less of a problem because they last long, but letters and origami? I use origami up exactly as fast as they go out. If you stock ten origami, I'll go through them all on my own in ten hours. It'll go faster if I die anywhere in that time, or have to log off/disconnect for any reason. Let's assume you devote your entire stock (at 250 items) to origami, and restock every day (24 hours). Let's also assume that during a day of playing, a player will go through about 1 origami per hour over that entire 24 hour period. You won't be awake for 24 hours using origami, but any time you die (even in the origami) or disconnect and reconnect, you need another origami. Also, some people will be around more often burning up more origami, so it averages out. That means that in a day period, one person goes through 24 origami. Which means that at full dedicated stock, you supply just over 10 people's origami needs. If you want to stock anything else, you just won't make it. Not to mention the constant search for a supplier of origami! And that supplier can't stock up to supply you (a la herbs) because they will decay in their inventory, they can't maintain a stock to stock.

A change to storeroom limit taken alone will put herbs/alchemy even farther ahead of other trades.


EDIT: Our guild stock room has over 250 items (I believe). We have to stock runes, can't depend on having a runist around... ever. It's not that fantastic of a skillset, and we don't have that high a membership census.

Eventru:

(I mean, we /could/ do grouping on items, but there'd be things like - if you group 100 identical robes, then break them up, their stats will all be the same (probably matching the lowest pair in the group, to prevent abuse) and they'll all have the same decay time (again, the lowest decay time in the group, to prevent abuse). So you would potentially ruin hundreds of robes by accidentally grouping in 1 bad pair. Obviously this A.) is not desirable and B.) makes no sense from a roleplay standing, so I sincerely doubt it's something we'd even consider.)

Well, if you have 100 identical robes, when they are created there is a + - 8 months life span on the items. And all the robes would have 12/12 starting right? It's only when enchanted that they change. Or if you were to have a group of rings, same design, you'd be fine. And same enchantment too! (I prefer to color code enchantments by ring type...) As far as roleplay, the moment you enter Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium, magical things happen that wouldn't happen elsewhere.

And Xyas, i think it's not too much about bringing it down, but deciding which item should be kept, and which one should be thrown away. 2k needles took about 15-20 rl days on average to sell for example, which is "selling a ton of items". But with this change, it's going be about buying more aethershops if you have to, as more people have multiple trades, and that 250 limit isn't going be enough..


edit: This is far-fetched, but any chance to help everyone go down to the 250 limit, entire shop wares get bought out by the admin? The time and money that went to those items are satisfied, the items are gone as a plus, and everyone has a bit more gold in their pocket.

So... bringing the shop limit down to 255 is a little drastic but... maybe I'm looking at the actual intent incorrectly. First I'd like to address the spectrum of the limitations. Is it going to be something like when you enter the command 'wares' in a shop front there will only be 255 items total that can be displayed or is the post more along the lines of there will only be 255 items able to be stocked in a shop? My purpose behind this question is to address two things.

First, with the big money spenders that the basin is so over populated with ( me being one of them), how are shop keepers supposed to be expected to keep up with the supply and demand of the basin when people can come in and buy out their store room effortlessly?

Secondly, in the event the item store room limit is going to be reduced because of lag, why not make storage devices like chests in the artisan skill set have a half lifetime decay rate on items stored within, the limit of items able to be stored within increased to 10,000 from its current limit, and make them something as expensive as thrones with a long lifetime like thrones of 600+ game years. It would help compensate for the drastic change in a way.

A little off topic and more of an idea that can be tied into this subject, I know you can get manse dwellers for your manse for a credit fee and was thinking perhaps you could tie in a butler feature that made them more of a grounds keeper. For instance, with the new dingbat manse farms it becomes more of a 'the more you're online the more use your farms will be to you' situation. Perhaps you could add the groundskeep feature to manse dwellers for a small credit fee and make it so they will automatically upkeep your farms to their maximum capacity each month but require the player to harvest in order to reset the cycle or make the groundskeeper able to rift the contents until collected by the manse owner with a rift cap of 500. They could also manage items stored in the manse chest and keep tabs on what will decay within 20 months (meaning they'd have 10 months left on the item if the chest has a 1/2 decay rate like the parafilament purse) and that should mitigate the lag issue of using them for that purpose.

Also the shop attendant is quite non-functional for any purpose other than refusing service to players or giving discounts based on your personal shops policies... maybe incorporate a similar system so that items you set in your stock room can be maintained by a shopkeep for an additional fee or 500,000 gold allowing them to restock with the items in your store room so that the shop front limit is lower and give the restocking time half a day to help people refrain from clearing the basin shops of an item before it can be resupplied.

The whole point of this is to _reduce_ the number of items in the game. By adding in a denizen that automatically restocks the shop from the chest (if I read you correctly), we'd be right back where we started.

Unfortunately no one thing will make everyone happy. My vote would be to increase the vial capacity to 200, increase origami so they have 5-10 per, and other single use items to have multiple uses. Other than that, not much we could do.

Nope, not every shop needs to be Walmart, that's all there is to it. 250 items (more if you buy the upgrades) is more than enough to fulfill your niche.

Some shops will simply have to specialize to cope. If vials aren't selling well, don't sell vials.

How to declutter:


- Increase vial sip size to a minimum of 200 sips. I suggest 500 and then make it so that each vial takes 25 gems rather than 5. Economy isn't affected, but I would imagine that vials are some of the most popular items in the game. I myself have over 300 vials, for instance, and I would gladly reduce the number will keeping the same amount of sips to hold. That's taking me from 300 vials to 60, which is an 80% reduction.

- Make full powerstones riftable.

- Make origami multiple use, probably 10 for a 93+% reduction.

- Have designed items that are sold be created upon purchase. People of the trade can get a seal to place in a shop (from the skillset, not an artie) that allows shopkeepers to sell anything from the cartels of seal's owner. In essence, an on-demand catalogue where the shopkeeper picks which items to put in and must stock supplies for them in order to be created.
- This has the additional benefit of making it rather simple to contract trade people into agreements as it's far easier to track what's sold and who should be paid for what.

- Make flowers riftable.

- Do not allow the sale of filled vials. Instead, create the vials upon the sale and allow a person to just refill empty as normal.


More to come.

I also don't understand what people mean by "increase origami so they have 5-10".

I think I mentioned before making items on purchase isn't really doable.

- Do not allow the sale of filled vials. Instead, create the vials upon the sale and allow a person to just refill empty as normal.


More to come.


the only problem i see with this is what if I want to sell the stuff coming out of my fountain?

Direct questions to Estarra:

1) Would you be open to giving org shops a slightly higher stockroom limit, since they can't be upgraded? Doesn't need to be the oft-mentioned 500, even. I think even just a bump to 300 would be appreciated. That's still 50 more items to work with.

2) Would the recommended eye/palm/monolith sigils that everyone has in their stockrooms for security reasons count against the limit of 250 items? If so, is there any possibility you might let those be "freebies", so to speak?

3) How are you feeling about the suggestions regarding vials, specifically: a) increasing the amount they can hold and b) allowing a shop mechanic (be it standard or by a purchased upgrade) that lets people create them from gems in stock?

4) Last question! Are you open to increasing the amount of times a single origami can be used? I buy them ten at a time, and burn through them really quickly. Each kirigami/wetfold being 3-5 uses each would reduce the amount of origami people needed to stock/carry around. The cost of production could be increased accordingly.

EDIT: You posted about 3b while I was writing. Curse my inability to get a post out in a reasonable amount of time! Question 3a still stands.

Also edit: "Increase origami to 5-10" means, let a single, say, kirigami give its defense multiple times, instead of just once as it currently is. I think 10 is too much, personally. In my 4th point I just said 3-5, which I think is a more reasonable range.

Also, I should note that I don't believe it is really doable to rift full powerstones.

Anyway, let's try to keep the focus on shops! That will probably still be one of our first lines of attack. I'm not sure the point of waiting a month or more except to delay the inevitable.

Estarra:

I also don't understand what people mean by "increase origami so they have 5-10".

Make origami multiple use and increase cost porportionately. Origami is used nearly as often as often as enchant charges or potions.

We are focusing on shops, including the problems with the current solutions. Things like food, powerstones, and origami take up plenty of slots in shops. Implementing a lower storeroom cap would adversely effect such items unless other changes are made.

How to declutter:


- Increase vial sip size to a minimum of 200 sips. I suggest 500 and then make it so that each vial takes 25 gems rather than 5. Economy isn't affected, but I would imagine that vials are some of the most popular items in the game. I myself have over 300 vials, for instance, and I would gladly reduce the number will keeping the same amount of sips to hold. That's taking me from 300 vials to 60, which is an 80% reduction.

I'd definitely support such a change. For the sake of the sake of it, it'd be 250 sips if you want to quintuple the capacity.

- Make full powerstones riftable.

While I'd like this, it's probably unlikely (it might require a considerable rewrite to be able to check the state of the item as opposed to just if it's one of the allowed types)

- Make origami multiple use, probably 10 for a 93+% reduction.

I'd love this as well.

- Have designed items that are sold be created upon purchase. People of the trade can get a seal to place in a shop (from the skillset, not an artie) that allows shopkeepers to sell anything from the cartels of seal's owner. In essence, an on-demand catalogue where the shopkeeper picks which items to put in and must stock supplies for them in order to be created.
- This has the additional benefit of making it rather simple to contract trade people into agreements as it's far easier to track what's sold and who should be paid for what.

This was suggested a while back, and was ultimately denied, unfortunately.

- Make flowers riftable.

I wouldn't have a problem with this at all, but I don't see it as needed either.

- Do not allow the sale of filled vials. Instead, create the vials upon the sale and allow a person to just refill empty as normal.

This probably falls under the same category as the idea two places up.

Estarra:

I also don't understand what people mean by "increase origami so they have 5-10".

I think I mentioned before making items on purchase isn't really doable.

Basically, you'd be able to release an origami (kirigami/wetfold only, I'd imagine) five times before it's destroyed. Quintuple the commodities needed, of course.

Phoebus:

Direct questions to Estarra:

1) Would you be open to giving org shops a slightly higher stockroom limit, since they can't be upgraded? Doesn't need to be the oft-mentioned 500, even. I think even just a bump to 300 would be appreciated. That's still 50 more items to work with.

2) Would the recommended eye/palm/monolith sigils that everyone has in their stockrooms for security reasons count against the limit of 250 items? If so, is there any possibility you might let those be "freebies", so to speak?

3) How are you feeling about the suggestions regarding vials, specifically: a) increasing the amount they can hold and B) allowing a shop mechanic (be it standard or by a purchased upgrade) that lets people create them from gems in stock?

4) Last question! Are you open to increasing the amount of times a single origami can be used? I buy them ten at a time, and burn through them really quickly. Each kirigami/wetfold being 3-5 uses each would reduce the amount of origami people needed to stock/carry around. The cost of production could be increased accordingly.

1. I'm on the fence.
2. They would count. We can look into giving shopkeepers a break.
3. We are looking at vials but not in any way you could imagine. I'll leave it mysteriously at that but really you don't need to give us suggestions at this point.
4. Oh, hrm, I see now. It's something we can look into, though I'm actually not seeing origami being a huge issue.

Are you also looking at flowers? They have a really low decay time anyways, so it doesn't particularly need to be something that needs to be saved. Especially if the thing can only be done in a stockroom (so once it's bought / given to a person it will go ahead and decay away).

Estarra:

Also, I should note that I don't believe it is really doable to rift full powerstones.

Anyway, let's try to keep the focus on shops! That will probably still be one of our first lines of attack. I'm not sure the point of waiting a month or more except to delay the inevitable.

asking to delay so we can get rid of the stock we have instead of being forced to destroy it or have everything start to decay on us. we put a lot of gold into what we have and without a way to deconstruct a lot of it to get back what we put into it, no one wants to lose their gold investment.