The change will initially be rough on everyone who currently has a shop with more than 250 items, yes. But once that initial cut has happened, I don't personally feel like tailors are worse off than jewelers, enchanters. cooks and bookbinders.

As I have mentioned before, my primary concern about the coming changes is that it will be more difficult for novices to find the enchantments they need. As has been noted, alchemy and herbology are going to be largely unaffacted. I expect I will still be maintaining a, perhaps slightly smaller, selection of robes and packs for sale. I'm not really worried about them not being able to find origami because most novices don't use it, and if they do it's usually because someone else gave them some when taking them hunting.

However I do not have any further suggestions regarding how to make sure shops can fully stock enchantments that haven't already been deemed too impractical. With that being the case, it's not that it doesn't matter, but that the conversation revolving around ranking trade skills does not seem to me to be productive. Also, I remain optimistic that this may encourage people to make better use of org shops, so that some can stock all cosmic enchantments, while others stock other things.

The main difference between an org shop and a manse shop is that an org shop can be rented out at a far cheaper price than buying a new aethershop. In setting an org shop to be better than a 1000 credit investment probably would not happen. They probably wouldn't get a buff to the stock as well. Both are going be hit equally, but with the option for expansion for manse shops - another nice difference. Enjoy :)

edit: sorry for sounding like a dick, but in an effort to put a non-artifact over an artifact won't do.

You know what makes a manse shop better than an org shop? The fact that no one can take it from you.

Also, I'm not sure why limiting stock is such a bad thing when it will encourage people to have to make friends and actually advertise their trades over market again.

What we will need is a directory for commune/city shops, so that it becomes easier to search for things in commune shops. Especially if/when you will need to go to multiple shops for things. I see commune/city shops getting hit harder by this change, because there will be that much more hunting around, and it will be easier (even more then it is now) to just go to the plex and hit PORTAL SEARCH SHOPS then and so on.

Back in the day, serenwilde had one, might still do. Glomdoring has one as well, but it isn't updated. People just need to know where to look.

A manse shop is priced the way it is because

• it is 'yours' - the organization cannot take it away from you
  
• lack of rent
  
• ease of shopping (PORTAL SEARCH SHOPS X)
  
• ability to be expanded
  

With that said, org shops should be given a bit more base, because as it is they are already distinctly less competitive than manse shops, and this gap will only worsen when the changes go in.

Falcon:

Back in the day, serenwilde had one, might still do. Glomdoring has one as well, but it isn't updated. People just need to know where to look.

What are you talking about? It is a pain to update a directory like that. Glomdoring has 20 (?) shops at the moment. Imagine that nightmare of an update.

No, I'm talking a real (hardcoded) directory. As in you go to a spot in the commune/city and do DIRECTORY and it tells you what shops stock something with 'robe' in the name or the 'robe' noun. This wouldn't have to say what exact pattern necessarily, or cost (it might just have pattern, no cost) but it would give the shop name and vnum.

diamondais:

Glad I'm not the only one who went "Who actually stocks forging stuff besides warrior guilds?"

... well, I did when I could forge. It's pretty fun, actually, they really do not sell well. The thing is forging tends to be so expensive and warriors are so reliant on the top quality weapons/armour that most novices just get their stuff made by their mentors/other guild members at no charge or a much reduced one. I used to stock a lot of armour and weapons in my manse shop and they would rarely sell, apart from the impatient person coming out of inactivity and Gaudi/Halli warriors right when they were first available. It wasn't a good market to begin with!

I think both shops should be given a bit more base. Not one or the other. 300? 400? An enchanter at the 250 item cap can sell 23 different items, including focus, 10 of each enchantment, and have 20 room left for 2 or 3 cubes and until the changes for sigils go through, that's a palm, eye, monolith, 14 room left. That's for the 1000 credits. We have to pay more credits for more room.

Anyways, an org shop usually isn't taken away, and if you pay your rent, which is low enough compared to the 11,000,000 gold cost (if credits are at 11k each) of a manse shop.
edit: 7k rent a year, lets go with the 11 million cost, you will have paid in 1,571 game years the cost of an aethershop.

Again. Don't advocate one or the other. If the shops are being decreased in stock limit, 400 would be excellent. It would give room to stock the heavier items, also it would give people a little bit more leeway in what they are stocking.

What are you talking about? It is a pain to update a directory like that. Glomdoring has 20 (?) shops at the moment. Imagine that nightmare of an update.

CHELP SHOPDIRECTORY

It might exist, yes, but it's likely terribly outdated, if even relevant. Aethershops have a constantly-updated directory, as opposed to a player-updated one.

Enyalida's idea is a good one, in any case. Have something like a tome at the nexus, everyone can read it to browse through the wares.

edit: Think I found a solution for forgers and tailorers. I'll see how that works out.

CHELP based directories are terrible and super-work intensive.

A directory wouldn't be at the nexus. For instance, both of the communes have a specificed shopping district type area. Serenwilde's could be right outside the portal room, Glomdoring's outside the entrance to the gambling area. Hallifax's would have to be on top of one of the towers or at the ministry of information, Mag has a good middle of shops area for it to be in, as does Gaudi. Only Celest would have any sort of trouble figuring out the best place for it, but it's a minor problem.

Enyalida:

CHELP based directories are terrible and super-work intensive.

A directory wouldn't be at the nexus. For instance, both of the communes have a specificed shopping district type area. Serenwilde's could be right outside the portal room, Glomdoring's outside the entrance to the gambling area. Hallifax's would have to be on top of one of the towers or at the ministry of information, Mag has a good middle of shops area for it to be in, as does Gaudi. Only Celest would have any sort of trouble figuring out the best place for it, but it's a minor problem.

Celest has a tourism information thing, though db searchers are also resource intensive so I'm not sure we would want such a thing at this time.

It works for manseshops, so it should work for orgshops.

Ssaliss:

It works for manseshops, so it should work for orgshops.

Even if it were as easy as you make it sound, that doesn't mean it is a good idea when your hardware resources are already insufficient to handle the current load.

It would seem infinetly better to me to first reduce the load, and then once things are stable again research the possibility of adding new things that only increase workload.

I doubt manse shop searches are dependant on an outside DB though; it's more likely to just scan what's already loaded from the DB. If there were a lag-inducing problem with searching through manse shops, I hope they would disable that for the time being.

Of course, an org directory is likely nowhere near the top of their priority-list, but it'd still be nice to have.

It also exists in the exact form I'm suggesting already in other IRE's. If we're moving our shops to be more like theirs, I don't see an issue.

Enyalida:

No, I'm talking a real (hardcoded) directory. As in you go to a spot in the commune/city and do DIRECTORY and it tells you what shops stock something with 'robe' in the name or the 'robe' noun. This wouldn't have to say what exact pattern necessarily, or cost (it might just have pattern, no cost) but it would give the shop name and vnum.

I'd like to see something like that. Though I think they should list the resulting items, like at the plex, otherwise if you search for, say, "sapphire," it would show sapphire gems, sapphire vials, clothing and jewelry with sapphire in it... and you wouldn't know which it was. Much more efficient to show the actual items.

Even if they can't hardcode something like that, a stock limit would create specializations so it wouldn't be as difficult to keep up a help scroll or whatever. "These are the bookshops, these are the clothing shops" etc. Guild shops tend to stock more variety but they might just have to make use of their guild denizen more...

That reminds me - Estarra, would this limit apply to the stockrooms of guild denizens who sell things, as well?

Just a few comments on this thing:

- Please don't make org shops have more stock, just make them upgradeable by the city, then the city can charge more rent on them or charge more initially

- I really really think that if they are change, the opportunity for a credit refund should be given

- Don't change it immediately, because I will need to find a way to get rid of 1000 items quickly.

- If you do change it immediately, buy out everything that is for sale in manse shops, because if not, there are going to be angry people

Just as a summary from what I've read over the past few pages, I see all these people pointing out manse shopkeepers as the problem. Honestly, we bought this artifact because of the value it held. Had it not had this value, many of us may not have bought it. I don't see why the sudden attack on shopkeepers for lag over anyone else, because honestly, if you are going to do it to some people, do it to everyone. AND Just because I read something Estarra posted that said something about not taking kindly to threats about players quitting because they are only doing it because it is better for all the players then I have something to say that may come off a bit sarcastic/rude, but hey I'm going to say it anyway...

Why not buy a server with more capacity for the game, rather than devaluing the money players have put into this game, that they didn't have to in the first place... seems like IRE would rather take a kick at their consumers than take a cut out of their own bank account in this particular situation