Again, do you need all those types stored so that you can 'get back in the game'?

EDIT: Actually it was apparently already fixed since I noticed it, hahaha. <3 Iosai.

Sure sounds broken to me... did you bug it yet?

Actually it wasn't fixed. Mistakenly thought it was covered by one of the bullets in that last announce, so yeah I bugged it now.

foolofsound:

I used to keep at least three vials of every curative around, as well as at least 10 health/mana/ego, plus poisons for my beast, ect. It adds up.

I don't think you understand the meaning of "punish". You are in no way being punished by being given a chance to make things more convenient for you. If this change is literally nothing but good for bloat, since even without artifacts it allows you to have 40 vials worth of substance "held" in one physical vial. Saying that you are being "forced" to buy 275 credits worth of artifacts is ridiculous and untrue; you need not be any more worried about your vials decaying that you were previously. I am actually pretty appalled that people would complain about these artifacts of all things; they do EXACTLY what artifacts should: added convenience without disrupting game balance. That people COMPLAIN because the convenient change isn't convenient enough for them is really sickening; no wonder the admins get so fed up with us.

If you didn't include all those poisons that you don't need (7 vials of crotamine? Whatever for?), I' sure that you would note a 60-70% reduction in vials as well. Your numbers are skewed by a significant number of vials that you don't need.

It is most definitely a bigger inconvenience now for me. It's not hard to manage the vials at all when you don't have to worry about them decaying, and carrying 300 vials hasn't bothered me at all, but once again, I'm not basing my argument on this.

I do understand the meaning of punish, but I don't believe you understood my argument. I'll spell it out this time.

A good-doer wants the least amount of lag.
Less vials decreases the lag.
Thus, a good-doer wants the least amount of vials.

However, the least amount of vials requires a 275cr purchase.
The good-doer can either pay 275cr or not have the least amount of lag.
Thus, either the good-doer pays 275cr to benefit the game or deals with more vials than necessary.

I'll grant you that 'punish' might not be the correct word, but 'discriminate' is.

I'm -appalled- that, as a player, those in charge are willing to sacrifice the health of the game to make a few bucks, and I would like anyone to prove to me that increasing the amount of liquids to 50 for free wouldn't reduce bloat even more. I'm sure you can say that the revenue helps the game too, and while that might be true, that's speculation in which I can counter that some players might buy less. I used to be a hefty credit purchaser with a membership, but it's this sort of thing that made me stop.

EDIT: I'm not actually infuriated by this, but I am commenting that this did leave a sour taste in not only my mouth, but other people that I've talked to. I'm more willing to do business with a generous company than one that tries to get every penny from me.

I had so much fun filling up my liquidrift today that I hit my limit of 50 different liquids before I knew it. I still have a dozen poisons not in there, and I don't want to drain anything to put them in, so I'm crossing my fingers that the maximum liquids will be expanded further.

Also, what am I going to do with 40 artifact vials when I only need 10-15 to cover everything? :D

Is there some reason that the Aetherdrop artifact costs 100 more credits then the Anomaly? I don't think it's actually 100 credits more valuable.

EDIT: In general, because vials are still 100% viable and not particularly annoying to use, 100 extra credits on the rift artifact isn't what it's worth.

I'm more wondering why there is a limit to the number of different liquids, given that the normal rift holds umpteen different things without requiring an upgrade. The artifact does seem a little pricey, but I'd still buy another one to get more liquids into my rift...

From what I can tell, it would take quite a while for the cost of vials to hold those extra liquids to catch up to the cost of the artifact, especially since those things that are left are likely to be closer to fringe use, so you won't need to hold large amounts of them.

I sort of agree with Sahm. In the end, it's either hold on to all your vials of junk (thus technically increasing lag) or pony up 275 credits for something you really don't need, and that doesn't actually provide any convenience (unlike various other misc. artifacts who have that purpose alone). I'm fine holding onto my vials, tragedy of the commons be damned. After I filled my rift, I still had 100 vial (exactly) in my inventory.

This was mostly my design and, after talking with envoys, I determined that 25 liquids would be what would generally be needed by most players. If they want the luxury of more sips and more liquid slots, that seemed a perfect fit for the artifact.

In any event, I think it is absurd to suggest that our greedy motives is putting the game at risk because we aren't giving everyone unlimited liquid rifts. It was never the intention to get rid of all vials everywhere; rather, the rift is a mechanism to help reduce the vial count to help address some database bloat. What we have done accomplished what was needed and the limitations offer some thought and strategy over managing the liquid rift (this is still a game after all). I actually think we should have a limit on the rift for commodities and was seriously thinking of adding a limit but that boat has sailed and so I'll defer to what we have.

Estarra:

This was mostly my design and, after talking with envoys, I determined that 25 liquids would be what would generally be needed by most players. If they want the luxury of more sips and more liquid slots, that seemed a perfect fit for the artifact.

Yeah. I mean, I just don't think it's that much of a luxury to cost more then say the glamrock, or the (more useful, imo) anomaly. There is less need for it then those things, and it costs more.

EDIT: That's what my second paragraph was about also. If it's between paying 275 credits or just carrying vials (Even if that increases lag a teensy bit), I'm going to go for vials, because it's really not difficult (everyone is used to it anyways, and even new players will be), and will take a very long time to cost as much as the artifact to avoid using them.

EDIT: I'm also saying that if it was the same cost as the Anomaly, I'd be way more open to ponying up the credits.

Again, I don't want everyone to think that carrying a few vials is going to cause lag. If you are at the 25 liquid limit, you should not feel that carrying a few more vials is going to cause the game to lag (unless you think you need to carry tens of thousands of vials). We are looking at the macro-perspective, and the liquid rift addresses the vial bloat more than we really even need. (Note another IRE game had a similar issue and simply raised the sips of their vials which cleared the problem--our system has gone far beyond that.)

Regarding the cost of the extraspatial artifact, it was a rune that was priced in an auction (that linked keg to vial) for 275cr. We wanted to keep its usefulness at the same value--so it seemed that increasing the number of liquid slots AND sips in the liquid rift was balanced. If you think otherwise, feel free to offer suggestions! Again, we want to keep the artifact at the same value.

Is it possible to have the artifact cost less the more you purchase? After the 50 different types, you are paying 275 just to expand the rift. Maybe make it like the rift expansion at 125 credits with the expansion to 50 types for 150 credits? So people can choose instead.

I like Falcon's idea, though that may fall into the realm of "changing artifact value".

Falcon:

Is it possible to have the artifact cost less the more you purchase? After the 50 different types, you are paying 275 just to expand the rift. Maybe make it like the rift expansion at 125 credits with the expansion to 50 types for 150 credits? So people can choose instead.

So keep the 275cr extraspatial artifact increases to 50 liquids and increase sips by 50%.

Add another artifact (100cr?) that would just increase sips by 50%.

Sounds doable.

It wouldn't though. The two parts of the artifact would be 275 credits total. Same as the artifact as it is now - except people can choose which they want now. Makes it more affordable as well.

edit: didn't see Estarra's post

Falcon:

It wouldn't though. The two parts of the artifact would be 275 credits total. Same as the artifact as it is now - except people can choose which they want now. Makes it more affordable as well.

She already said that's not going to happen, that's changing the price of the current artifact... so they'd have to deal with everyone who's bought it and only wanted the expanded liquid capacity.

Or perhaps a cheaper artifact that EITHER increases your number of sips OR the number of liquids? Similar to the rift artifacts that can expand either rift?

I just want 75 liquids with no unlinked vials required.