Nope. I can screencap it for you, it's in Seren news for all time.

Yeah, proof's been compiled. Gogdamn

Saran:


The forests, the mountains, the rivers, the seas, the deserts, the fields, the sky, the earth. There is apparently a definition of what environment types are natural though this likely includes wyrd simply so that ecologists from glom can actually use paths in their forests.

I would say something along the lines of "That which is comprised of the pure and undiluted essence of the plane it resides in." as the creations of the creators were merely the reshaping of the essence of the world and the fae appear to simply be manifestations of this.

Earth is Tainted.

Saran:


That the cities or wyrd help out with tentacle monsters isn't a sign that they care about maintaining the purity of nature. All they really care about is ensuring that the tentacle monsters don't destroy them as well.

Actually, no. Glomdoring is very much interested in saving the fae and ensuring the nature spirits survive. We don't see the destruction of all things natural - we seek its upgrade to Wyrd status, which won't happen if it's eaten by Kethuru or whoever! After all, Wyrd is nature over come Taint, and all that.

Saran:


Balance has the issue with, as mentioned in the reasons for why, that technically the cities can be considered to balance themselves out. Yet at the same time, like every other org, our RP end game is to wipe every other org from the face of the basin.

I am not sure how "what is nature?" is ill defined it's simply that for many players they think that nature = forests and never go further than that, which in turn makes Maeve = nature. There are many more natural locations in lusternia other than serenwilde.

"Nature" is ill-defined because, as I said above, Elemental Earth is Tainted. Ethereal has incorporated Wyrd. Personally, I would define "nature" as that which contains nature spirits, that is, fae. And fae are tied to Maeve, this makes Maeve equal (or at least, as close as possible) to "nature".

Serenwilde isn't just about Nature, it's traditionally been about Pure Nature, in contrast to the "corrupted" (what Glomdoring calls "upgraded") Nature. That's a perspective difference which, in my (and Ev's) view, isn't necessarily excluded by mechanics. Sure, recent events have required both, but that doesn't mean each side can't think that their way is better.

I'm pretty sure that's still the idea. What I really just want is a concrete way to measure how successful we are at that. Some specific facet of Nature that we can point at and rally around as our particular thing.

Sylphas is totally cool with Magnagora because it's taint isn't anything we can't fix. Without Kethuru backing it, the crap Geos lay down is just dirt. It's the difference between genetic mutations and falling in a puddle of mud. I don't think I've ever convinced anyone else to believe that, but it works for him.

You'd probably have a few people agreeing with you, based on there is THE Taint, and Mag's taint. Always worked in my books for understanding it!

Earth is Tainted.

Earth in that quote is very obviously the literal untainted earth beneath the feet of many characters right now.

Actually, no. Glomdoring is very much interested in saving the fae and ensuring the nature spirits survive. We don't see the destruction of all things natural - we seek its upgrade to Wyrd status, which won't happen if it's eaten by Kethuru or whoever! After all, Wyrd is nature over come Taint, and all that.

Yes and Serenwilde does not agree with your point of view, as far as we are concerned you are pretty taint that needs to be destroyed because you are much more harmful to the natural world. I'm not quite sure why we keep being told glomdorings point of view when we are trying to work on Serenwilde

"Nature" is ill-defined because, as I said above, Elemental Earth is Tainted. Ethereal has incorporated Wyrd. Personally, I would define "nature" as that which contains nature spirits, that is, fae. And fae are tied to Maeve, this makes Maeve equal (or at least, as close as possible) to "nature".

"And the Fields of the Maeve is the crossroads where all forests meet. It is at this place that we shall attempt what has never been done before. We have called only the fae of the forests here. The Seventh Circle shall attempt to help the Sixth Circle use these lesser spirits to merge together to create a hive soul. If successful, their collective strength may offer the forests more protection against the Soulless Ones."

Book of Clangorum, Shairim specifically states that only the fae of the forests are summoned, Aslarn stating the reasoning being that the forests are the anchors for much of the first worlds life force and that they needed extra protection.

It's very specific, if the books stated it was all of nature then Maeves protection would extend to the seas, as an example.

Are there any non-player written posts stating that Mag's taint is benign and temporary, or is this extrapolation from game mechanics which could have put in place to ensure that a group of zealous Mag players didn't cover the entire basin in perma-taint during off hours? And for that matter, are there any non-speculatory posts explaining that the Wyrd isn't fundamentally Tainted? I also haven't read any event news yet supporting claims that the Wyrd is an entirely separate deal from the Taint.

Ultimately, this is all mostly moot as what matters to the story is how our characters perceive the world, their actions and their beliefs, and while hearing a grand cosmic voice weigh in one way or the other might be gratifying, in the end it's just want for an RP safety blanket.
Would like to revise my stance on the status of the Serenwilde as an organization though - I think all the reenergizing Seren needs could come from taking this forum topic discussion in game.

Rauhaur:

And for that matter, are there any non-speculatory posts explaining that the Wyrd isn't fundamentally Tainted? I also haven't read any event news yet supporting claims that the Wyrd is an entirely separate deal from the Taint.

Nope; there also are not any non-speculatory posts explaining that the Wyrd is fundamentally Tainted. You're not supposed to know for a fact OOC!

Lusternia really is about shades of gray.

If you're not allowed to extrapolate from mechanics, then half the game doesn't count for anything, so I don't see that argument holding any water. You can destroy and clean up a geomancers meld, therefore it doesn't even approach the Taint of Kethuru. If you say "That's just mechanics" then every other organization has more than enough RP to go and smash Magnagora into the ground and ensure they can't completely destroy the world. You can't have it both ways, really.

Saran:

Earth in that quote is very obviously the literal untainted earth beneath the feet of many characters right now.

I always saw the Elemental planes as the more specialized components of everything that makes up the world. So, in effect, everything that uses Earth is a teensy bit Tainted. It's also why removing Taint/Kethuru/Soulless would have detrimental effects; they've seeped into too many important things.

Saran:

Yes and Serenwilde does not agree with your point of view, as far as we are concerned you are pretty taint that needs to be destroyed because you are much more harmful to the natural world. I'm not quite sure why we keep being told glomdorings point of view when we are trying to work on Serenwilde

We're taking Glomdoring into account because, like it or not, Glomdoring shares the 'nature' aspect with Serenwilde. The problem being discussed is that Serenwilde's identity got blurred so much with the release of Glomdoring (and the subsequent events that came with it), so in order to avoid yet another identity crisis Glomdoring, to an extent, has to be factored in.

Saran:

Book of Clangorum, Shairim specifically states that only the fae of the forests are summoned, Aslarn stating the reasoning being that the forests are the anchors for much of the first worlds life force and that they needed extra protection.

It's very specific, if the books stated it was all of nature then Maeves protection would extend to the seas, as an example.

The forests are the greatest bastions of nature due to the fact that they hold so much life. All the other environments are essentially negligible when compared to the forest. Hence, whenever 'nature' is discussed, it inevitable gets equated to 'forests'.

Rauhaur:

Are there any non-player written posts stating that Mag's taint is benign and temporary, or is this extrapolation from game mechanics which could have put in place to ensure that a group of zealous Mag players didn't cover the entire basin in perma-taint during off hours? And for that matter, are there any non-speculatory posts explaining that the Wyrd isn't fundamentally Tainted? I also haven't read any event news yet supporting claims that the Wyrd is an entirely separate deal from the Taint.

EVENTS #42


As they rose into the sky, the great creature circled over the forest,
drawing clouds of taint up above the canopy of the trees. Thousands of
fae appeared below whispering and chanting in a frenzy. As the creature
consumed the taint, the taint was transformed into something wholly
new, something the fae called the Wyrd of Glomdoring.

Scholars later discovered that 'wyrd' was a fae word that could be
loosely translated to mean "a powerful event which changes the course of
the Fates". Viravain and Isune together created the Wyrd of Glomdoring,
made manifest by the Ebonglom Wyrdling, which had emerged from the
cocoon. Apparently, the goddesses had attempted to recreate the forest
itself, Isune who tried to instill beauty and Viravain who tried to
invoke greater power. However, because the visions of the goddesses were
warped by Kethuru, they did not touch the forest at all, although they
individually thought they were doing so. Instead, their magics only
touched the taint itself.

Thus, the Wyrd of Glomdoring came to be, which transformed the taint
itself. What has sprung in its place is nothing anyone could have
imagined or foreseen. The word "Wyrd" now only means one thing to the
fae: that which was once the taint which now rests in Glomdoring, where
the earth itself is wyrden and the repercussions are only just beginning
to be felt.

The first paragraph speaks of how the Wyrd is something "wholly new". The second paragraph, however, shows in detail exactly how the Wyrd came to be, and there the greyness begins: there's the touch of two Elder Goddesses and the divinus energy, but also Kethuru and excoroperditio force, working not on the forest but directly the Taint. The last paragraph presents the Wyrd as that "which transformed the taint itself", and that it "was once taint", which can be speculated that it is, in fact, no longer Taint at all.

Shades of grey! Lusternia is full of it, and that's part of what makes it so dynamic.

Rauhaur:

Ultimately, this is all mostly moot as what matters to the story is how our characters perceive the world, their actions and their beliefs, and while hearing a grand cosmic voice weigh in one way or the other might be gratifying, in the end it's just want for an RP safety blanket.
Would like to revise my stance on the status of the Serenwilde as an organization though - I think all the reenergizing Seren needs could come from taking this forum topic discussion in game.

Exactly - hence why Serenwilde's identity crisis can be solved by players without Admin intervention. It's all about how well Serenwilde's players twist/interpret the grey mass that is Lusternian lore. And why this discussion on nature/forest/wyrd/taint is equatable to a real life religious debate: no one will win.

These thread has been fascinating and wildly entertaining.

You really should be taking much of this IC, however, and debating it there. Are the fae of Maeve only forest fae? Are the kelpies a part of Maeve? Are the shroomies? Is the Wyrd tainted?

I certainly have my opinions, and it's clear many of you do. There's been implications as to how dark or light the shades of gray are in past events - the proverbial bread crumbs have been there, for those who care to nibble at them.

'Shroomies' is such a deregatory term. They're hyfae!

'Shroomies' is such a deregatory term. They're hyfae!


Shroomies is a label applied to a group of younger hyfae who were teleported someplace safe.

They've probably degenerated a bit, weak as they are.

Speaking of degeneration, Newton and Lolliprin both seem to have deleterious effects on the well-being of their inhabitants, comparative to the examples found elsewhere. It's almost as if the Fates - in addition to barring powerful adventurers from access - are deliberately curtailing the power of its denizens in order to provide a compelling (but manageable!) challenge for the younger ones... Conspiracy!

eritheyl:

It really bothers me that people (you) have gotten into the habit of forcing the blame for all of the woes in the world on Hoaracle. He did not 'come in and command people to do things'. He stated that he didn't want members of HIS ORDER defending Magnagoran territories. Why? Because Hoaracle was one of the Triumvirate, and is ALWAYS going to be against the Taint and the Twelve Traitors.

Yes, this keeps people from his order in some cases. Yes, this leads to not always having wowomgawesome war shrines active for every single squabble. But you know what? Sometimes you just really need to set game mechanics and related worries aside, and learn to enjoy what you have to work with. I'm ashamed of the general attitude of Serenwilde, which caused me to leave it. The undue blaming of the one god who has tried his best to keep everyone pleased (while sticking to his role, heaven forbid!) doesn't help anything.

Yet people have the nerve to wonder why things aren't fun for them anymore.

Can you be my new best friend?

Rewrote the collegium file for dedicants. :D

Actually, things have been more fun for me than they were in ages, due to my long conversations with people about what Serenwilde is about.

I'm not sure if I should make a Serenwilde post about my views or not.

Now to find enough gold/cash to become an elfen.

Yes, make a post!