Unknown2012-01-27 01:30:10
Sidd:
As far as novices go, it just requires people to be more intereactive. I know in Glom, (and I'm not a good example of this, but a lot of other people are) there are a lot of older characters that love RPing with the novices and interact with them. When I think back on it, one of my big draws to like Glom was the fact that I was taken bashing a whole lot by people like Talan.
I know that during fights if we lose or don't win, I try to tell all the newer people 'hey, it didn't quite work out, but good work.' I do my best to not 'yell' at people for messing up or anything (I'm not perfect, it happens sometimes), but just encourage them to learn from it for next time.
I guess my point is I don't feel we mechanical incentives. Sure they'd help, but I don't feel a novice is going to more inclined to stick around just because they gain more lessons/gold by influencing loyal mobs. Providing a open atmosphere where people feel comfortable and that they 'belong' is a million times more important. Anything mechanical is extraneous.
I agree that people as a whole should interact with novices more, however I also feel that implementing mechanics that promote novice retention is a positive step that the admins can make; as you said, they can help. A good mechanical introduction is expected by most players of modern MMOs; a demographic that we should certainly be marketing partially towards. Yes, players can introduce such a thing in their own way; but Estarra asked for suggestions to make the game more newbie friendly, implying that the admins want to help as well.
Sidd:
Alliances are tough to change because people dislike others IRL. I'm sure there's a few people that dislike me immensely. I know I don't want to work with certain people in every org(Celest and Gaudi included). I would if I had to, and maybe it would show another side of them that might change my feelings, but I know for a fact that Munsia's said she would do everything in her power to destroy any alliance with Glomdoring. I'm sure others would do the same thing.
Exactly! That is exactly why such changes are healthy; they promote a player base that has less hatred of each other. If Munsia or anyone else is too spiteful to be willing to do this, honestly I feel that they are a toxic asset to the game, and would prefer if they got kicked out of their respective orgs, else quit entirely.
Sidd:
Other than that, stop trying to nerf combat. Stop trying to punish preparation. Villages shift often enough as it is. Bubbles are won by preperation. I'd like to see weakenings again.
Again, I'm not a fan of neither option 3a or 3b myself; I feel that villages aren't a HUGE problem; I feel that being able to hold seven is certainly pushing it, but I don't feel that villages are in some way skewed; usually when villages are lost it is due to bad organization. I do feel like the Bubble mechanics don't work well, for a variety of reasons, but I don't feel that having them all flare at once is a particularly reasonable option either. Honestly, from what I heard from older players, I feel that option 3c is best.
Eventru2012-01-27 04:07:17
I've more or less stopped reading posts 2 or 3 pages ago, once everything went all silly "rah I'm right you're wrong" "you griefed us forever ago you deserve it" "omg everything should be fair and even across the board" type of arguments. It seems that you've corrected yourselves (albeit in some weird direction), but if it descends into vitriol again I'm just going to close the thread.
Neos2012-01-27 04:16:56
Rah rah Eventrus sig is outdated(slightly) and
if a ~= b then print("poof") endTemnota2012-01-29 11:39:14
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2012/01/the-economics-of-role-playing-games.html
This may be helpful to apply to the topic - I suspect you could replace RPG with MUD and it would make similar levels of sense.
This may be helpful to apply to the topic - I suspect you could replace RPG with MUD and it would make similar levels of sense.
Unknown2012-02-01 23:40:13
I really wanted to reply to this topic a while back but it kind of slipped my mind. There are a lot of things I miss in Lusternia but like all things in life, everything has a lifespan and Wuylinfe's kind of ended a little while ago too. Also, I think the marketing direction IRE chose for its games was horrid and has done more harm than good. I think, out of all the MUD 'companies', IRE has the biggest potential to redefine the genre in a new era of gaming, but sadly it seems to be going backwards instead.
In any case after the meeting in London, I'm strongly tempted to make my first alt since Wuylinfe and play a lot more boldly this time around and get involved with an Order. I noticed the Cantors got a few new really cool skills...
In any case after the meeting in London, I'm strongly tempted to make my first alt since Wuylinfe and play a lot more boldly this time around and get involved with an Order. I noticed the Cantors got a few new really cool skills...
Unknown2012-02-01 23:58:54
Yeah. The most notable changes as of late have been PrincessFarewell now bypassing (but not stripping quicksilver) - This has huge potential, as you can imagine.
Of the others, there is GuardianAngel:
Along with this, we have AvengingAngel. (Awesome skill. It's basically a fugue failsafe, but can be deadly if used correctly):
This gives some nice recurring blackout with a selection of afflictions.
Eversea you may or may not know about. (Passive and instant shield erosion.)
JustChorale got its message made generic now, too. Nice change.
The last report I put in was for bard beckon. I am obviously really hoping this gets accepted, heh.
The guild is still a little low on numbers though, if I were honest. That said, pretty much every guild is these days. We generally have four or five people around at this time of day. (Midnight GMT.)
tl/dr: The new skills are really great, but skill-wise there is still a bit of work to do. I am looking to work some semblance of synergy into the skillsets beyond the old damage traits. That said, Cantors are really suited to such with the new damage types. (We have divinus damage. Our other basic attack, starchord deals 50% fire/50% divinus and certainly packs a punch.)
The only real caveat is that we're still pretty much tied down to being merian. (Although faeling would not be bad, I guess.)
That should have covered most things, really. Any questions, don't hesitate to ask!
Of the others, there is GuardianAngel:
STARHYMN - GUARDIANANGEL
Syntax: STARSONG CALL GUARDIANANGEL
Power: 2 (Pool of Stars)
Requires: At least three of the following songs:
LoveCanticle
HopesCarol
MercifulSanctus
CrusaderCanto
LightCantata
Sing this song and you will summon an angel to guard you from harm,
negating approximately 30% of all damage you take for a short period of
time. However, your song will turn back by one stanza.
Along with this, we have AvengingAngel. (Awesome skill. It's basically a fugue failsafe, but can be deadly if used correctly):
STARHYMN - AVENGINGANGEL
Syntax: STARSONG CALL AVENGINGANGEL ON
Power: 3 (Pool of Stars)
Requires: At least four of the following songs-
LoveCanticle
HopesCarol
MercifulSanctus
CrusaderCanto
LightCantata
Sing this song and you will summon an angel to bring harm to your foe. However,
it will cause you to fade two stanzas.
This gives some nice recurring blackout with a selection of afflictions.
Eversea you may or may not know about. (Passive and instant shield erosion.)
JustChorale got its message made generic now, too. Nice change.
The last report I put in was for bard beckon. I am obviously really hoping this gets accepted, heh.
The guild is still a little low on numbers though, if I were honest. That said, pretty much every guild is these days. We generally have four or five people around at this time of day. (Midnight GMT.)
tl/dr: The new skills are really great, but skill-wise there is still a bit of work to do. I am looking to work some semblance of synergy into the skillsets beyond the old damage traits. That said, Cantors are really suited to such with the new damage types. (We have divinus damage. Our other basic attack, starchord deals 50% fire/50% divinus and certainly packs a punch.)
The only real caveat is that we're still pretty much tied down to being merian. (Although faeling would not be bad, I guess.)
That should have covered most things, really. Any questions, don't hesitate to ask!
Unknown2012-02-02 00:04:16
Haha, I peeked at the skills on the wiki. If I got back into the game I don't think I'd have time to relearn combat though. Are the angels NPCs or just in the background?
On the other hand the new Hallifax god looks pretty interesting too... decisions, decisions!
Also- WOW, credits at 10k now!? That's insane!
Also also the old forum design was 100x better than this one :(
On the other hand the new Hallifax god looks pretty interesting too... decisions, decisions!
Also- WOW, credits at 10k now!? That's insane!
Also also the old forum design was 100x better than this one :(
Neos2012-02-02 00:21:03
Draylor:
Yeah. The most notable changes as of late have been PrincessFarewell now bypassing (but not stripping quicksilver) - This has huge potential, as you can imagine.
Of the others, there is GuardianAngel:
Along with this, we have AvengingAngel. (Awesome skill. It's basically a fugue failsafe, but can be deadly if used correctly):
This gives some nice recurring blackout with a selection of afflictions.
Eversea you may or may not know about. (Passive and instant shield erosion.)
JustChorale got its message made generic now, too. Nice change.
The last report I put in was for bard beckon. I am obviously really hoping this gets accepted, heh.
The guild is still a little low on numbers though, if I were honest. That said, pretty much every guild is these days. We generally have four or five people around at this time of day. (Midnight GMT.)
tl/dr: The new skills are really great, but skill-wise there is still a bit of work to do. I am looking to work some semblance of synergy into the skillsets beyond the old damage traits. That said, Cantors are really suited to such with the new damage types. (We have divinus damage. Our other basic attack, starchord deals 50% fire/50% divinus and certainly packs a punch.)
The only real caveat is that we're still pretty much tied down to being merian. (Although faeling would not be bad, I guess.)
That should have covered most things, really. Any questions, don't hesitate to ask!
If I was into alts, and that beckon went through, I'd seriously consider making a Cantor.(Kelly, Malicia, Rivius and some others would murderize me if I switched on Neos)
Shou:
Haha, I peeked at the skills on the wiki. If I got back into the game I don't think I'd have time to relearn combat though. Are the angels NPCs or just in the background?
On the other hand the new Hallifax god looks pretty interesting too... decisions, decisions!
Also- WOW, credits at 10k now!? That's insane!
Also also the old forum design was 100x better than this one :(
You bring your butt back to Celest or I'll drag you back myself.
Unknown2012-02-02 00:22:05
The angels are just in the background, luckily :)
Ssaliss2012-02-02 13:30:57
Shou:
Also- WOW, credits at 10k now!? That's insane!
Also also the old forum design was 100x better than this one :(
10k if we're lucky.
Credits currently available for purchase:
25 credits at 12500 gold per credit.
5 credits at 12700 gold per credit.
93 credits at 12749 gold per credit.
39 credits at 12750 gold per credit.
5 credits at 65000 gold per credit.
Total credits for sale: 167 shown (167 total) (Average sale price: 11477)
Use CREDITS BUY AT to purchase. Unknown2012-02-02 13:48:45
That is not a lot of credits either. :/
Unknown2012-02-02 16:13:58
I recently bought a bunch off the market to fund my Illuminati->Institute change, and a bunch of other people were buying up credits to afford to skillflex for the War Seal. Give it a few days.
Unknown2012-02-02 17:32:27
Warning: I started typing and didn't stop. I've tried to parse things out, there are parts that are probably skippable, but I wanted to get it all down.
On Retention:
Briefly- I started in the Serenguard, stayed there until Gaudi came out. Wasn't planning on moving, but when I saw the flavour and background of Gaudi, I really liked it. Went there, was a Templar, then a Pyro. I did not leave due to drama or politics, mostly, something just wasn't clicking right for me personally. I love the org, but I was always feeling a little restless and frustrated there. So I went to Celest, joined the Paladins, loved it.
In fact, of the orgs I have tried, with Akui, or with the very-rare-for-me alt, my experience with Celest was and continues to be the furthest from the reputation that had been attached to it from the forums and in game clans. I've wound up hopping about Celest's guilds because they all have aspects to them that I've found appealing or interesting that I've wanted to explore or at least experience.
Now obviously, people have different tastes, but if I ask myself, "Self, what are the reasons your experience in Celest has been particularly positive?"
In no particular order:
- Investment in guild infastructure: The Paladins have a knighting ritual that occurs in the cathederal, is highly structured, and has awesome room emotes. Even though I know there's no mechanical edge to any of that, the feel of it is superior to standing about in some spot, using custom emotes and illusions (no matter how well produced) to create a home brew ritual. I mean, I typically have never been one to chase guild advancement, but when I was in the Paladins, I actively did and wanted to, because it felt like something far more relevant than a number and some privs I will seldom use.
- Investment in org infastructure: Pretty much the same as the above, just on a larger scale. The theme is the same. It makes the org feel alive, it gives avenues of interaction with the flavor and RP other than looking at denizens, room descriptions, and guard greetings. Even if nobody else were logged in, Celest (and this is true to some extent of Seren and Glom too) feels alive, with little interactions and small, no headache quests.
- Active Divine: I know this can be touchy, and its not like they can be plucked from thin air, but having a divine that pops in, even if it is just to say a few things on GT and CT, let alone OT/OTO, on a somewhat regular basis really makes an Org feel more relevant. On an OOC level, it also is a little emotional reassurance that the org hasn't been set adrift.
- Coherent Purpose: We talked about this at org level at length vis a vis Serenwilde. An org's purpose, in my opinion, cannot revolve around the destruction of the enemy org. That simply means that your existence is dominated by whatever the other org isn't. I am still of the opinion that this is what happened to Serenwilde, at least RL years ago- Glom, for better or worse, hijacked the nature narrative, and Seren has/had(?) little left to really call its own, other than "we're not them". Purpose doesn't even have to take the form of advancing The Cause(tm). Merely internal celebration and reassurance of what the org is an is about goes a long way- a well executed Festival of Light in Celest is a great deal of fun.
However, it is also very important on a guild level. Is your guild integrated in to the underlying purpose and structure of your org, or are you just the yahoos with the "broken skills" (taken whichever direction you want to take that) that live in that weird building down by the river? This is particularly challenging for newer cities and newer guilds, but even older guilds can suffer from this. Some examples from personal experience (some of this is RL years old, so take it as a case study rather than an assessment of current status):
Serenguard:
-The Serenguard have this sort of odd, complex history. In many ways, they should, RP wise, be the "Inquisitors" of nature. They were formed in part from disparate warrior groups and individuals to protect Serenwilde during its historical civil war. In that regard, they have a pretty damn unique RP hook to play on. However, in my time there, this almost never came up, half the time it wasn't even discussed, and when it was the reception was basically "what is this idiot doing?" The guild also has a general tribal native american feel. Well, I'll be honest, that part never really clicked with me personally, but even so, generally it goes ignored, save a few people (Everiine) spending years blowing frantically on those embers. The Serenguard always felt like, "there's something potentially very cool and very unique here, but it goes unrealized in favour of "rawr, I am a knight."
Monk Guilds (various):
With their orgins linked to the Keph/Thoid conflict, they start off feeling like outsiders that don't quite fit in with the other parts of the organization. I know the Shofangi struggled with this, perhaps they still do? I always felt like the Shofangi didn't play up that their "animal" mimickry of bull is sort of a direct and powerful thing, but I honestly don't know what they're like now. They certainly felt tacked on for a long time. The Nekotai seem to play up their outsider nature in a way that makes it cool, with the cult RP and what not. The Tahtetso's Lumosis concept is also interesting in its deviation from the standard "Light" RP, focusing more on the internal aspects as it does.
Cantors:
I had a lot of fun with the RP of the Cantors, my only lament being that there wasn't enough of it. During the Zenos event, they had a conflict over how to treat trill altered by Zenos that resulted in the loss of their patron. The argument was actually very cool. I was surprised that, given Zenos's relation to the song of creation, that that aspect of it didn't come up. Cantors are one that I felt tied in well to the city in general, but never quite drive the nail home. Still, an awesome guild in a lot of ways that I really enjoyed and would endorse for anyone wanting to try a bard, from an RP standpoint.
Paladins:
Personally, the best guild experience I've had. The internal RP was consistent both in quantity and in the nature of it. The rituals are well developed and involved, and feel relevant. The guild's ties to the underlying organizational RP are as strong as they can be. The internal division in to the various guild orders are not just fancy names for "I like to fight", "I like to influence", or "I like to ", but actually have purpose and integration beyond the more base points.
On Retention:
Briefly- I started in the Serenguard, stayed there until Gaudi came out. Wasn't planning on moving, but when I saw the flavour and background of Gaudi, I really liked it. Went there, was a Templar, then a Pyro. I did not leave due to drama or politics, mostly, something just wasn't clicking right for me personally. I love the org, but I was always feeling a little restless and frustrated there. So I went to Celest, joined the Paladins, loved it.
In fact, of the orgs I have tried, with Akui, or with the very-rare-for-me alt, my experience with Celest was and continues to be the furthest from the reputation that had been attached to it from the forums and in game clans. I've wound up hopping about Celest's guilds because they all have aspects to them that I've found appealing or interesting that I've wanted to explore or at least experience.
Now obviously, people have different tastes, but if I ask myself, "Self, what are the reasons your experience in Celest has been particularly positive?"
In no particular order:
- Investment in guild infastructure: The Paladins have a knighting ritual that occurs in the cathederal, is highly structured, and has awesome room emotes. Even though I know there's no mechanical edge to any of that, the feel of it is superior to standing about in some spot, using custom emotes and illusions (no matter how well produced) to create a home brew ritual. I mean, I typically have never been one to chase guild advancement, but when I was in the Paladins, I actively did and wanted to, because it felt like something far more relevant than a number and some privs I will seldom use.
- Investment in org infastructure: Pretty much the same as the above, just on a larger scale. The theme is the same. It makes the org feel alive, it gives avenues of interaction with the flavor and RP other than looking at denizens, room descriptions, and guard greetings. Even if nobody else were logged in, Celest (and this is true to some extent of Seren and Glom too) feels alive, with little interactions and small, no headache quests.
- Active Divine: I know this can be touchy, and its not like they can be plucked from thin air, but having a divine that pops in, even if it is just to say a few things on GT and CT, let alone OT/OTO, on a somewhat regular basis really makes an Org feel more relevant. On an OOC level, it also is a little emotional reassurance that the org hasn't been set adrift.
- Coherent Purpose: We talked about this at org level at length vis a vis Serenwilde. An org's purpose, in my opinion, cannot revolve around the destruction of the enemy org. That simply means that your existence is dominated by whatever the other org isn't. I am still of the opinion that this is what happened to Serenwilde, at least RL years ago- Glom, for better or worse, hijacked the nature narrative, and Seren has/had(?) little left to really call its own, other than "we're not them". Purpose doesn't even have to take the form of advancing The Cause(tm). Merely internal celebration and reassurance of what the org is an is about goes a long way- a well executed Festival of Light in Celest is a great deal of fun.
However, it is also very important on a guild level. Is your guild integrated in to the underlying purpose and structure of your org, or are you just the yahoos with the "broken skills" (taken whichever direction you want to take that) that live in that weird building down by the river? This is particularly challenging for newer cities and newer guilds, but even older guilds can suffer from this. Some examples from personal experience (some of this is RL years old, so take it as a case study rather than an assessment of current status):
Serenguard:
-The Serenguard have this sort of odd, complex history. In many ways, they should, RP wise, be the "Inquisitors" of nature. They were formed in part from disparate warrior groups and individuals to protect Serenwilde during its historical civil war. In that regard, they have a pretty damn unique RP hook to play on. However, in my time there, this almost never came up, half the time it wasn't even discussed, and when it was the reception was basically "what is this idiot doing?" The guild also has a general tribal native american feel. Well, I'll be honest, that part never really clicked with me personally, but even so, generally it goes ignored, save a few people (Everiine) spending years blowing frantically on those embers. The Serenguard always felt like, "there's something potentially very cool and very unique here, but it goes unrealized in favour of "rawr, I am a knight."
Monk Guilds (various):
With their orgins linked to the Keph/Thoid conflict, they start off feeling like outsiders that don't quite fit in with the other parts of the organization. I know the Shofangi struggled with this, perhaps they still do? I always felt like the Shofangi didn't play up that their "animal" mimickry of bull is sort of a direct and powerful thing, but I honestly don't know what they're like now. They certainly felt tacked on for a long time. The Nekotai seem to play up their outsider nature in a way that makes it cool, with the cult RP and what not. The Tahtetso's Lumosis concept is also interesting in its deviation from the standard "Light" RP, focusing more on the internal aspects as it does.
Cantors:
I had a lot of fun with the RP of the Cantors, my only lament being that there wasn't enough of it. During the Zenos event, they had a conflict over how to treat trill altered by Zenos that resulted in the loss of their patron. The argument was actually very cool. I was surprised that, given Zenos's relation to the song of creation, that that aspect of it didn't come up. Cantors are one that I felt tied in well to the city in general, but never quite drive the nail home. Still, an awesome guild in a lot of ways that I really enjoyed and would endorse for anyone wanting to try a bard, from an RP standpoint.
Paladins:
Personally, the best guild experience I've had. The internal RP was consistent both in quantity and in the nature of it. The rituals are well developed and involved, and feel relevant. The guild's ties to the underlying organizational RP are as strong as they can be. The internal division in to the various guild orders are not just fancy names for "I like to fight", "I like to influence", or "I like to ", but actually have purpose and integration beyond the more base points.
Enyalida2012-02-02 20:06:47
And everyone in Serenwilde is so resistant to any change, even a minor on that attempts to revitalize things fall flat. I tried writing out a big system of ministry checking and payment, that would hopefully ensure active ministers without increasing their workload, and make a solid payment schedule, and everyone was on board until I proposed actually doing it, then it totally flopped.
I've tried two times now to do various changes to the Leaves, the first had a lot of meaning changes, the second was simply for better organization, and both times was met with a 'nah, everything in Seren is perfect as is' kind of reaction. It's so weird, because everyone (Active) agrees that we need to do something, but when the time to do things comes up, someone will pop out of the woodwork to insist that all is well as is. I've got a definite few names of people who do this who I really dislike for it.
I've tried two times now to do various changes to the Leaves, the first had a lot of meaning changes, the second was simply for better organization, and both times was met with a 'nah, everything in Seren is perfect as is' kind of reaction. It's so weird, because everyone (Active) agrees that we need to do something, but when the time to do things comes up, someone will pop out of the woodwork to insist that all is well as is. I've got a definite few names of people who do this who I really dislike for it.
Razenth2012-02-02 20:20:50
Kick the mofos out.
Riluna2012-02-02 21:17:51
Enyalida:
And everyone in Serenwilde is so resistant to any change, even a minor on that attempts to revitalize things fall flat. I tried writing out a big system of ministry checking and payment, that would hopefully ensure active ministers without increasing their workload, and make a solid payment schedule, and everyone was on board until I proposed actually doing it, then it totally flopped.
I've tried two times now to do various changes to the Leaves, the first had a lot of meaning changes, the second was simply for better organization, and both times was met with a 'nah, everything in Seren is perfect as is' kind of reaction. It's so weird, because everyone (Active) agrees that we need to do something, but when the time to do things comes up, someone will pop out of the woodwork to insist that all is well as is. I've got a definite few names of people who do this who I really dislike for it.
Perhaps "everyone" you've asked, but I can guarantee you with 100% certainty that not everyone in the Serenwilde is as you describe. It's easy to get discouraged, on both ends. If you have something worth asking, keep asking!
Enyalida2012-02-02 21:24:22
Well, by everyone, I mean the people on the MC or in my guild leadership >_>.
Riluna2012-02-02 21:35:29
So talk to their constituents. You tend to get more things done when your guild is on you to get it done.
Turnus2012-02-02 21:37:13
Riluna:
So talk to their constituents. You tend to get more things done when your guild is on you to get it done.
This is generally only true if people actually care and/or are willing to replace their GM.
Riluna2012-02-02 21:40:48
Turnus:
This is generally only true if people actually care and/or are willing to replace their GM.
So talk to them, and get them to care. If they can't be bothered, then they won't be bothered to oppose those you've talked to that do, and support you. If you have anything of value, people notice. The Moonhart Circle is not the Serenwilde.
