Then it's a totally undesirable effect, relegating the bard to support only via Tarot, when they could be doing so much more using unspec Music.

Crimsoncourante seems like it actively inhibits you... You shouldn't be relying on tarot alone, especially since rubbing is EQ.

Raeri:


Except... soulless rubs consume equi, not balance.

Foiled again. BUT it's okay, now that I've slept a bit, I should be less embarrassing :D

I'm quite sure CrimsonCourante is meant to be a huge detriment to us, one of those things that could be situationally good in group combat (everyone NOT a Sentinel keeping earwort up), but is sort of just a waste of a skill when you look at things 1v1. It would be a different story if, say...using the gem would keep the same effect (balance recovery boost for bard/allies), but would negate the equilibrium tradeoff. Maybe a bit OP, or not worth taking up a gem slot anyways, but eh.

It looks to me that CrimsonCourante is there to help with allies, Sentinels, and eventually Monks, but also its there to help with Tarot. It gives a substatial boost to throwing tarot cards which puts Symphs on par with Aeonics for aeoning, a fast lust for AurelionAubade, which ties in for a decent setup to pull off a Soulless.

I also don't believe Glamourists are all that at a disadvantage. They have a way to deliver a great amount of mental afflictions, off eq with off balance, mesmerize is a hugely underestimated skill, especially when used with a sleep attack and aeon. Plus it has great defense which Loralaria also has and unspec'd Music. I really think the skillset just needs a little more time and some combatants behind it to help it find its groove.

While I do like the idea of speeding through with aeon, it seems to really be more supplemental than anything as we have no way to secure a lock. At least, nothing has stood out to me yet, even figuring in Beastmastery. Of course, that's sort of the niche that bards fall into - being most useful in group, supplemental. I think we can definitely hold our own, but there are a few things (everything Rika mentioned) that just strike me as odd, and a bit unwieldy.

I really think the skillset just needs a little more time and some combatants behind it to help it find its groove.

Daedalion seems to be doing rather well for himself with it, but he's never sitting still long enough for me to pester. I'm venturing into the realms of sparring today, I'll see what I can come up with and get back to this.

Asmodea:

It looks to me that CrimsonCourante is there to help with allies, Sentinels, and eventually Monks, but also its there to help with Tarot. It gives a substatial boost to throwing tarot cards which puts Symphs on par with Aeonics for aeoning, a fast lust for AurelionAubade, which ties in for a decent setup to pull off a Soulless.

I also don't believe Glamourists are all that at a disadvantage. They have a way to deliver a great amount of mental afflictions, off eq with off balance, mesmerize is a hugely underestimated skill, especially when used with a sleep attack and aeon. Plus it has great defense which Loralaria also has and unspec'd Music. I really think the skillset just needs a little more time and some combatants behind it to help it find its groove.

Which is all true, or they could be pursuing aurics which do well against all but fairly high tier opponents. Especially in group combat, it seems like this would be the better plan.

Enyalida:


Which is all true, or they could be pursuing aurics which do well against all but fairly high tier opponents. Especially in group combat, it seems like this would be the better plan.

Yeah, bards really shouldn't be doing anything outside of p5 and damage in groups, imo.

Quick question.
CrimsonCourante, how effective is it using against your enemies? Could it be made to increase your allies balance only, and decrease your enemy's equilibrium? Or is that too lolop?

Falcon:

Quick question.
CrimsonCourante, how effective is it using against your enemies? Could it be made to increase your allies balance only, and decrease your enemy's equilibrium? Or is that too lolop?

I've considered it (just the equilibrium lowering, not keeping the balance increase), but I think something like that would really warrant higher stanza placement, which brings up the whole 'we have nothing for our low stanzas what why' thing. I really, -really- want something generally useful like Wildarrane's Stonemists to be thrown in as another low-stanza option, but meeehh.

Asmodea:

I also don't believe Glamourists are all that at a disadvantage.

I found that, despite my personal preference for Glamours, Tarot is simply the better choice for Necroscream (being able to perform a fast Aeon right after song hits does wonders for keeping plague up). From what I've gathered, the same is true for Starhymn; Glamours doesn't provide enough offense. I haven't seen enough of the other two city bards in action to be able to come to a conclusion. Ecology seems pretty good for Commune bards, though the extra tankiness of IllusorySelf seems wonderful for Shadowbeat, since they have such limited defensive abilities. Ultimately though, the disadvantage isn't too severe; bards rely on thier terts much less than the other archetypes (possibly with the exception of Cantors).

foolofsound:

I found that, despite my personal preference for Glamours, Tarot is simply the better choice for Necroscream (being able to perform a fast Aeon right after song hits does wonders for keeping plague up). From what I've gathered, the same is true for Starhymn; Glamours doesn't provide enough offense. I haven't seen enough of the other two city bards in action to be able to come to a conclusion. Ecology seems pretty good for Commune bards, though the extra tankiness of IllusorySelf seems wonderful for Shadowbeat, since they have such limited defensive abilities. Ultimately though, the disadvantage isn't too severe; bards rely on thier terts much less than the other archetypes (possibly with the exception of Cantors).

Oh by no means was I trying to point out one tert being better than the other, its true for alot of guilds, but just trying to get people to think outside the box. Glamours can be a widely underestimated skillset, especially when used right, and it has some decent synergy with LoralAria. One thing I would suggest envoying however, would be changing RedRubato's damage type to psychic to synergise with BlueBercuese.

Glamours is pretty hilarious in combination with dodging/the-rest-of-acro to annoy the crud out of anyone by knocking them off-balance/dodging all the time, then soaking their damage attacks with illusoryself and spamming reflections/avoid.

Enyalida:
Which is all true, or they could be pursuing aurics which do well against all but fairly high tier opponents. Especially in group combat, it seems like this would be the better plan.

^In response to this, while I agree that anything other than damage and hindering in group combat is worthless. I will have to point out that aurics are not viable as a damage kill without shadowbeat double mana loss. The effect, probably better in groups, yes, but overall not that appealing. Unless we're just talking about powerspike'n the truehealers.

As a general response to this thread, while I'm not overly happy about.. well, most of the skills. I do not find myself unable to get kills, purely because I've found that our skillset gives enough hindering/coupled with tarot that I can pull off soulless rather easily. Perfectfifth/Fall/sky before sleep tick/toss soulless while prone/asleep. Sure, you'll get some experienced people curin the aeon then gusting you or throwin out sleep. But everybody screws up sometime and 8 seconds goes rather quick.

I do agree that glamours users are in the bucket on this one though. However, flare and mesmerize someone about 8 times and they'll be seriously cursing you out. You can't keep them asleep, no, but the hindering alone is enough for most people. Who hates tiredness prone and sleep? Along with a 10s tic of possible double sleep? You do. Start tossin some colourbursts and stuff around then who knows? I'm not sayin you'll kill ixion with it. I'm sayin the strategy, while not perfect, is there.

Not sayin there isn't anything wrong with our skillset. Obviously there is. Our envoy slots will be full for a long time. But the entire situation isn't hopeless.

Daereth:

^Not sayin there isn't anything wrong with our skillset. Obviously there is. Our envoy slots will be full for a long time. But the entire situation isn't hopeless.

This is what I was trying to get across :) hah

Daereth:

^In response to this, while I agree that anything other than damage and hindering in group combat is worthless. I will have to point out that aurics are not viable as a damage kill without shadowbeat double mana loss. The effect, probably better in groups, yes, but overall not that appealing. Unless we're just talking about powerspike'n the truehealers.

AFAIK, The shadowbeat double mana loss doesn't effect dchord at all, as the stat drain doesn't trigger any health backlash. I agree that dchord isn't really an ending strategy on high tier fighters, but really, when I played bard I could get a dchord in two earworts, it's pretty easy to get on someone quickly, provided you've already regened power. There is a buff currently in the works for it, but I'm really wary of increasing its power too much, see above on how fast you can potentially get all four aurics and dchord, and that's in 1v1!

Oh, I think we're far from hopeless!

Asmodea:

One thing I would suggest envoying however, would be changing RedRubato's damage type to psychic to synergise with BlueBercuese.

I'm still not entirely sure why it's cold in the first place, other than that being our spec chord damage type. Given that it's based on ruby, which is straight magical damage, it does seem a bit odd.

eritheyl:

Oh, I think we're far from hopeless!


I'm still not entirely sure why it's cold in the first place, other than that being our spec chord damage type. Given that it's based on ruby, which is straight magical damage, it does seem a bit odd.

One would have to assume it's cold to target the opposing org race of dracnari.

Raeri:


One would have to assume it's cold to target the opposing org race of dracnari.

Righto! Same with the spec chord damage.

Guess it's time to put in my two cents now! I'll being with my biggest issue with the skillset: Early targetted stanzas/stanzas that kill our song. We have two songs, one low/one mid, that are targetted, which would be very nice, if not for the fact that we have to refrain so early in the song. I'm already working on AureolinAubade, so I'll talk about FleckedFortissimo here for now. While I don't think a passive hindering is a wise thing, especially considering what it does, I do think it needs to be modified to not be targetted SOMEHOW. The second part of this, are stanzas that kill our song. The Minstrels also have this, which I'm sure that they don't use too often either, and it is a big pain in the butt. For one, the skills that do it ARE NOT that great anyway (Convergence being a fling that requires sleep, ClearCapriccio being an alacrity that can cure if gemmed, which is a waste of a gem) and if they are going to end our song, they better be some pretty amazing skills that make up for the loss of passives/actives we are going to lose while trying to get our song back up, because let's face it, a bard is nothing without their song up. I'm sure Convergence is going to be the target of our next envoy report, because everyone hates it right now, so suggestions on it would be nice (We are considering going away from a fling altogether, because a Convergence is not a separation, but a coming together, so it makes NO SENSE to have it called Convergence). As for ClearCappricio, we are probably going to have it changed to be an ally-helping passive, as we need more skills that can help allies, which in turn help with our hunting.

My second issue is the lack of synergy of it all. Right now we have to worry about lust to get SkySforzando, try to sleep to hinder a bit, worry about timewarp stacking to help RedRubato, rubbing soulless if that is our kill, plus all the music things which a lot of bards use. We have too many things that are very much all over the place. Now I do understand that bards are mainly a class to assist in groups, and some of our skills will help each of the guilds in Halli (mental affs with aeros, balance recovery with sents), but honestly, I don't feel like that should be our only focus. I'm thinking of going down a mainly lust related focus, which is part of the reason for the AureolinAubade report, because right now, SkySforzando is probably our most desirable skill.

So yeah, ideas will help a lot.

What are you envoying about AurelionAubade?