Problem: Aureonlinaubade, a low stanza, targetted song, currently gives Lust, with daydreaming if gemmed. The skill has a couple problems, the first being that it is low stanza targetted, so it is useless, because no bard wants to refrain their song during low stanzas. Secondly, Lust is needed for SkySforzando, our Aeon skill, which is high stanza, so getting the Lust to stick until that skill is nearly impossible for Glamours users, while a bit easier for Tarot users, due to the Lust card.

Solution #1: Have AureolinAubade be a passive lust, which when ungemmed, has a 20% chance of hitting, and 40% when gemmed. This will already require the target to not be deaf to hit, as with all other song effects.
Solution #2: Change AureolinAubade to be similar to VioletVibrato, which gives passive afflictions or lust. The list for this would be from lust/peaced/pacifism/lovers and other things similar to these. Have the skill do 1 if ungemmed, 2 if gemmed.
Solution #3: Similar to solution 1, but 30% chance of lust, and instead of increased percentage with gemmed, have it give the peaced affliction.

Pending changes based on envoy responses, obviously.

How fast do songs tick again, then compare that with how fast love potion ticks.

Love potion is really a double-edged sword for bards, since we'll have to be rejecting in addition to everything else. I really wouldn't consider that a worthwhile factor, since most sensible bards won't bother with love potion in the first place.

Okay, I would like people to stop comparing it to love potion. Love potion ticks whenever, where ever and also has the downside of making you attracted to them. <- This is not a viable method for a bard, if you think so, you need mental help.

The song ticks every 10s, but you have to hear the song for it to work, obviously. Let's not even mention the horribly low percentage to work so that we can't even compare it to harmony pharamones. This is not an op change, it just makes it -slightly- better than it is now.

Would support solution 3, but question the choice to change out daydreaming for peace.

daydreaming sucks?

Au-contraire. I like daydreaming, personally. It may just be because of sap, but silent daydreaming is okay, it's at least one off-eq. Peace generally does nothing for you if you can't stack the bejeesus out of herb cures.

Curing sap requires balance, you can sip phlegmatic anytime you want to. Daydreaming also takes time to knock off bal in the first place. And the only tert it would help is tarot, but if you are tarot, you arn't stacking aff enough anyway. We went with peace because it still fit with the skill theme, yet helped more in the general sense compared to daydreaming since we have no lock. Besides, glamours could use anything it can get.

Though if you want to suggest something else, by all means.

Well, it depends on if it's a masked/shrouded daydreaming aff or not. If it isn't, it's not particularly useful. But the same goes for peace, if it's not masked/shrouded, they'll just cure it and go on their merry way.

Honestly, I never gemmed it so I don't know if it's masked or not. But since the lust from aubade isn't even masked.. I'm going to guess not.

Daereth:

Okay, I would like people to stop comparing it to love potion. Love potion ticks whenever, where ever and also has the downside of making you attracted to them. <- This is not a viable method for a bard, if you think so, you need mental help.

The song ticks every 10s, but you have to hear the song for it to work, obviously. Let's not even mention the horribly low percentage to work so that we can't even compare it to harmony pharamones. This is not an op change, it just makes it -slightly- better than it is now.

2 things 1) bards have a pretty easy way of being able to use love and not deal with the other edge. Destridas and Narsrim both have used paranoia and staying deaf to combat love potion and use it at the same time.

2) it's not hard at all to keep a target blanknnoted

Bards are the only list class that's really viable for, actually! @ the paranoia thing.

That also means you can't use any of the beneficial songs.

I think you also underestimate the many factors that can cause sticking blanknote to be much harder than it may seem to be.

Sidd:
2 things 1) bards have a pretty easy way of being able to use love and not deal with the other edge. Destridas and Narsrim both have used paranoia and staying deaf to combat love potion and use it at the same time.

2) it's not hard at all to keep a target blanknnoted

Would point out that an affliction is not a reason to say the change isn't necessary. I'd go further so say the downside of using paranoia, is rather large. Which includes no benifits from our song at all. It is also not viable in group combat.

As for the second, well, you'd be surprised. Also, if we're just talking about one on one staying deaf, then what does it matter even if it was super easy? It's just a gimped version of pharamones and we haven't nerfed that yet, as far as I'm aware.

No one was saying that the change was unnecessary because of this, we were only refuting your (incorrect) supporting evidence for it. As is, the skill sucks pretty bad.

Paranoia is perfectly useable in group combat for bards (for everyone but spiritsingers), especially when the other side has a bard. In that situation, there is a good chance that your team will have earwort up. If they don't, they probably should.

It is fairly hard to keep a determined target blanknoted if they really don't want to be, and aren't being hindered by anything else. All you have to do is shield right before earache drops, and you're blanknote proof. By the time they blanknote away your shield, you can usually either shield again or start a tumble. In group combat however (even small group combat), that gets a lot harder, as long as the bard isn't a target themselves. Though, again... single person lust chance is nobigdeal.

Enyalida:
No one was saying that the change was unnecessary because of this, we were only refuting your (incorrect) supporting evidence for it. As is, the skill sucks pretty bad.

Paranoia is perfectly useable in group combat for bards (for everyone but spiritsingers), especially when the other side has a bard. In that situation, there is a good chance that your team will have earwort up. If they don't, they probably should.

My evidence wasn't incorrect. It's a perfectly reasonable statement. The only evidence you have against love potion not being viable is an affliction that makes you attack everyone. I'll be sure to tell anyone I happen to be attacking by accident, 'Sorry, my bad. Enyalida says you should use earwort. No, you can't have my passive affliction curing, apparently I don't need it either.'

The point is that it being possible, does not mean it's viable. One on one, sure, I suppose I could use love potion. Not against Shuyin though, unless I want empressed into the catacombs. But in group situations where most, but not everyone likes to use earwort, paranoia is not the best option.

Love potion is just inconvenient, especially with the sheer weirdness of our spec. We're simultaneously going in with sleep, lust, timewarp, aeon, etc., all while keeping truehearing down. A little chaotic! It's not that I'm trying to have it all scrapped for e-z mode, I just think it needs to be a little less scattered.

Rejecting isn't wowomgsohard2do, but it's a little overwhelming when thrown into the mix. It's like spinning plates.

I'm saying that partially because when I suggested a possible change to the mechanics of captivate, that would have the effect of boosting the amount of time each bard's passive buffs to their party would statistically be up, I got a resounding "NO, I don't really want to buff my party, who will be under earwort anyways, to be safe."

I also am coming from the perspective of not wanting to function that way myself playing a bard and being told that it was a good strategy in some situation (and seeing the wisdom in it). If the statement is "No, having Love/Paranoia is always a bad idea, this will never happen.", the statement is incorrect. If your team members want to handicap themselves, let them do so, but that doesn't mean you should limit yourself.

I'm not really keen to get into (yet another) argument with you over bard mechanics when it's neither here nor there, as I do support the general idea of moving the reported skill away from a targeted effect. I just don't think you should discard concerns over possible strategies because they aren't strategies you like to use. I've fought plenty of people who do like to use them (especially as I like to use my active lust against bards under blackout), and used them myself from time to time.

@Eritheyl Yeah, rejecting is pretty obnoxious if you're trying to do anything else. It still SEEMS like you folks are supposed to be focusing on a sleep/aeonlock. Id see about getting a command skill possibly? It seems like a reasonable thing to like to lust as well, if that's a thing they want the skillset to focus on. You manipulate their emotions to command them, remaining cooly in your higher emotions.

Enyalida:

Id see about getting a command skill possibly? It seems like a reasonable thing to like to lust as well, if that's a thing they want the skillset to focus on. You manipulate their emotions to command them, remaining cooly in your higher emotions.

I really like this, actually!

In my experience trying to do anything sleepytimes based, if you don't have some way to drop metawake, you're pretty sunk. You'll want some kinda way to do that.