I got about a day >.>

Too little too late, but most of the discussion I'm bringing up didn't happen until this past week. I really hope that "too little too late" isn't going to be used as the excuse when an entire guild is potentially thrown under the tires, and it could be on the level of the pyros or worse.

If you read the thread, you'd see that he's talking about the Choke discussion that was happening right before his post...

Or, you know, you can two-person 'bandwagon' something out of context.

All reports are too little too late, not just choke.

Oh, don't be dramatic, most of the reports barring the class-related ones were done within a month (maybe 1 1/2 max), there was plenty of time to comment then, not during the review/feedback thread where it was already submitted

RE: too little, too late - please read the context of that comment. I.E. What Xenthos said.

RE: monks report commentary - I'm glad most of the changes barring the grapple ones were acceptable. I have no problem excluding ninshi from non momentum building should it be necessary. That's about it.

Grapples were not brought up at all until the last week or so, and somehow it is totally fine to chop off a leg on the grounds the other leg will be sturdy. Standardizing grapples but making them stupidly useless.

Now if you fix the grapple one you will have a 100% approval rating. Otherwise that one change outweighs any good you might do as it stands. Since it kills Ninjakari (who may be exempt), 10 skills from shofangi (enders suck now by proxy), the tahtetso greenlock, and a key piece of nekotai offense (ender).

As a note, not all grapples ignore parry/stance/rebounding. Tahtetso and Ninjakari's grapples both have to check them all as they counta as "weapon" hits.

The context is unimportant if it still holds true, all reports are "too little, too late" for changes even though some of us just had changes done recently. Or are you willing to make changes to reports still?

Sojiro:

Oh, don't be dramatic, most of the reports barring the class-related ones were done within a month (maybe 1 1/2 max), there was plenty of time to comment then, not during the review/feedback thread where it was already submitted

RE: too little, too late - please read the context of that comment. I.E. What Xenthos said.

RE: monks report commentary - I'm glad most of the changes barring the grapple ones were acceptable. I have no problem excluding ninshi from non momentum building should it be necessary. That's about it.

And Ninukhi? That change was tossed in from left field by you without any prior discussion (that I saw). I don't think it's warranted, and, at best, should be thrown to the envoys rather than being lumped up with these changes.

Shuyin, the plate armour change is in conjunction with standardization of robe stats at 65ish still, right? I just wanted to bump that discussion for the reasons I know have been discussed before (stat outliers such as the 83+ single stat robes I've seen, splendors getting much superior proofings, etc)

Ixion:

Shuyin, the plate armour change is in conjunction with standardization of robe stats at 65ish still, right? I just wanted to bump that discussion for the reasons I know have been discussed before (stat outliers such as the 83+ single stat robes I've seen, splendors getting much superior proofings, etc)

Splendor proofings are still just 10 dmp (according to bodyscan, anyway). You can just stick four onto the robe, that's all.

Raeri:


Splendor proofings are still just 10 dmp (according to bodyscan, anyway). You can just stick four onto the robe, that's all.

It doesn't stack with proofings on cloaks/coats either.

Yeah, Splendours having superior proofings was just a myth due to a misleading AB that got busted when bodyscan came in.

Splendor proofings are 10 dmp? Nice. Do they stack with tattoos? Seven 100-weight tattoos covers just about every element out there (You can have up to 759 tattoo weight). Did people took that into account before judging tattoo armour as superior (Aside from 84/84 armour, which will probably get nerfed to 74/74 if the changes gets through)? You can pretty much get the exact same amount of DMP by stacking splendors and absorption tattoos if they do go hand-in-hand together. (Forgive me if I'm not familiar with how robes and tattoos work)

*edit* And yes... I do agree with those who suggest that the grappling idea should get thrown to the envoying process. It just affects way too many of certain guild's skillsets. And the reasoning behind is too flawed (I.E. 'all grapples go through rebounding, stances, and parry' is not true since some grapples involving weapons do need to check for those factors.)

Edenwe:

Splendor proofings are 10 dmp? Nice. Do they stack with tattoos? Seven 100-weight tattoos covers just about every element out there (You can have up to 759 tattoo weight). Did people took that into account before judging tattoo armour as superior (Aside from 84/84 armour, which will probably get nerfed to 74/74 if the changes gets through)? You can pretty much modify get the exact same amount of DMP by stacking splendors and absorption tattoos if they do go hand-in-hand together. (Forgive me if I'm not familiar with how robes and tattoos work)

Yes, Yes, and Yes. Nothing says a tattooed monk can't wear clothes (i.e. proofed cloak/coat), just nothing that counts as having armour stats, yes? Total DMP and armourstats is greater for Tattoo users, regardless.

Yes, people did take that into account. The difference is that you get that 10 dmp from robes to exactly four types : Fire, Frost, Magic, Electricity. With Tattooarmor, you potentially get that much dmp (the 20 total they can get to those four types. to all 7 non-physical types, or even extra dmp to cutting/blunt that stacks with the armor value. Then you get more armor then it's possible to get on the robes (afaik), and without having to run through rng. You can't match that with robes.

EDIT: Got ninja'd:

Raeri:

Total DMP and armourstats is greater for Tattoo users, regardless.

This, and on a class that (most people think(?)) has awesome output, not to mention access to psymet/acrobatics (aaaa.. dodgea-dodgea-dodgea).

Raeri:


Yes, Yes, and Yes. Nothing says a tattooed monk can't wear clothes (i.e. proofed cloak/coat), just nothing that counts as having armour stats, yes? Total DMP and armourstats is greater for Tattoo users, regardless.

I originally thought a trans tat monk would loose the benefits of Tattoo Master if her or she were to wear a proofed cloak/coat. This only comes to mind from some conversation through envoys way way way back. If this is true, I coulda worn a proofed cloak/coat a while back to grab a few more elemental DMP.

Secondly, that means acros would get nearly the same DMP to "elemental" damage compared to psymet's due to diminishing returns AND despite the heavy lesson cost of psymet (i.e. needing to trans psymet & discernment for full values). I've already started a report on the acro/psymet topic, but it needs heavy revision.

Those responses fall short. 2x proofings is superior and outlier robes are not addressed.

To the one forwarding the report from the gentleman concerned: Are robes being examined in the special report? If not, they need to be standardized like plate was.

Ixion:

Those responses fall short. 2x proofings is superior and outlier robes are not addressed.

To the one forwarding the report from the gentleman concerned: Are robes being examined in the special report? If not, they need to be standardized like plate was.

Robe standardization would be nice. It helped forging and knights a great deal, not having to worry about balancing around some freakish cutting proof plate.

Honestly, what I would like to see is tailoring getting a similar treatment to forging. Find the cap we want for greatrobes and splendours, and let the robes be modified using cloth commodities.

Rainydays:


Robe standardization would be nice. It helped forging and knights a great deal, not having to worry about balancing around some freakish cutting proof plate.

Honestly, what I would like to see is tailoring getting a similar treatment to forging. Find the cap we want for greatrobes and splendours, and let the robes be modified using cloth commodities.

Wouldn't the enchanter making the adjustments make more sense?

We tried envoying being able to enchant robes up just like forging was altered to be less RNG dependent and to address higher end outliers, but that flopped sadly.

I think just being able to unenchant robes and try again was rejected also, sadly.

Janalon:


I originally thought a trans tat monk would loose the benefits of Tattoo Master if her or she were to wear a proofed cloak/coat. This only comes to mind from some conversation through envoys way way way back. If this is true, I coulda worn a proofed cloak/coat a while back to grab a few more elemental DMP.

Secondly, that means acros would get nearly the same DMP to "elemental" damage compared to psymet's due to diminishing returns AND despite the heavy lesson cost of psymet (i.e. needing to trans psymet & discernment for full values). I've already started a report on the acro/psymet topic, but it needs heavy revision.

Tattoos give you the dmp regardless of what you wear, but tattooARMOR is mutually exclusive from robed. If a monk puts on robes, the robe stats are what's going to be checked against.

In essence, it's robes or tattoos for armor. The DMP and such is stuff that everyone has access to, including knights.

I personally think that tattoos should give slightly more armor than splendours because a) it's limited to one archetype and B) it requires you to have the tradeskill active to reap benefit.

It's been a very long time since I've had tailoring active, yet I still get every personal benefit of the tradeskill. Can't do that for tattoos at all.