Can monks wear proofed cloaks and such alongside their tattoo armor?

foolofsound:

Can monks wear proofed cloaks and such alongside their tattoo armor?

Proofed coat and cloak, yes, just like robe wearers and I think plate wearers.

Proofings don't stack with splendors...

I agree that MasterTattoos should be better that Splendors, since it forces a trade skill on you, but they are way, way better than anything else right now.

Ultimately, splendours are just robes with ~20 more cut/blunt stats. They can fit two more proofings, but since there are only four of them and they don't stack, you can get just as much DMP to the other damage types by using a cloak and coat. Now, if they introduced more proofings, this would be a different story.

But they totally won't, though it's been requested a bajillion times. Something about it not making sense to have clothing be resistant to poison, though it currently can be insulating, fireproof, warm, and... magic proof? I figure that being rubberized (the electric dmp) would do just as well to prevent acid damage, which is pretty close to what poison damage is.

Why can't I coat my cloak in tin foil for DMP against psychic?

rika:

Why can't I coat my cloak in tin foil for DMP against psychic?

Tin foil hasn't been discovered yet, despite having steel and other big advances.

We can make aetheric constructs and huge nexuses of power but we are stumped by a piece of flattened metal. D:

If robes can only be proofed with Fire, Frost, Magic, Electricity, then they should expand on it. Especially since they added two new damage types: Excorable and Divinus. In Midkem, we actually have proofings for holy (their version of divinus), and well yeah... pretty much every available damage type except for cutting, asphyxiation, psychic, and blunt.

foolofsound:

Proofings don't stack with splendors...

I agree that MasterTattoos should be better that Splendors, since it forces a trade skill on you, but they are way, way better than anything else right now.

I never said they stacked. Robe wearers can get the DMP from tattoos and all 4 proofs from clothing. Tattoo-users get all the DMP from tattoos and only 2 proofs from clothing. This difference applies to robes and splendours, both.

Robes: 50/50 + all 4 proofs
Splendours: 70/70 + all 4 proofs (and no need for cloaks and coats)
MasterTats: 75/75 (or was it 78/78?) + 2 proofs
Plates: x/x + 2 proofs

What people need to remember is that everyone has access to the majority of tattoo benefits, TattooMaster only gives you the 75/75 (or 78/78) that is not available to anyone else.

If the elemental DMP from tattoos is the problem, then it's just as much a problem with robes and plate armor that it is with TattooMasters. If it's the armor portion, then that's unique to the trans tattooists that use tattoos (I'm trans and still use my splendours), but 78/78 isn't that far above splendours. My splendours are 75/57, for instance, and there were sets that had 72/72 or higher out there.

I definitely think there should be more proofing options, though.

Robes: 50/50 + all 4 proofs (Total of 4 types possible at 20 dmp, other types at 10)
Splendours: 70/70 + all 4 proofs (same as above)
MasterTats: 84/84 + 2 proofs (Total of 5 types possible at 20 dmp, pick two of 4 types possible at 30 dmp)


Well, tattoomaster tattoos are up and sitting pretty at 84/84, quite a bit better then robes, and guaranteed. The 72/72 number comes from the suggested nerf to balance things out. Furthermore, the dmp thing kinda is a problem with tattooarmour, and not a problem with armor/robes, I put in the different available dmp configurations. You really shouldn't be using your robes, from a strictly mechanics perspective. Of course, you then don't get to run around with robes, but hey, that's that.

Even without tattoomaster, you've got to compare the standard tattoos with standard robes, and you still come out ahead (though not by as much as you do with tattoomaster). All of the dmp problems stand, and you still have more guaranteed armor.

Enyalida:

Robes: 50/50 + all 4 proofs (Total of 4 types possible at 20 dmp, other types at 10)
Splendours: 70/70 + all 4 proofs (same as above)
MasterTats: 84/84 + 2 proofs (Total of 5 types possible at 20 dmp, pick two of 4 types possible at 30 dmp)


Well, tattoomaster tattoos are up and sitting pretty at 84/84, quite a bit better then robes, and guaranteed. The 72/72 number comes from the suggested nerf to balance things out. Furthermore, the dmp thing kinda is a problem with tattooarmour, and not a problem with armor/robes, I put in the different available dmp configurations. You really shouldn't be using your robes, from a strictly mechanics perspective. Of course, you then don't get to run around with robes, but hey, that's that.

Even without tattoomaster, you've got to compare the standard tattoos with standard robes, and you still come out ahead (though not by as much as you do with tattoomaster). All of the dmp problems stand, and you still have more guaranteed armor.

I don't ever remember it being 84/84, but maybe it is. That's news to me, and I definitely remember the numbers being either 75 or 78 when it first came out.

I don't understand why you're adding additional DMPs for the tattoo though. Anyone can get tattoos for additional DMP, and unless the AB is wrong, Mastertattoo doesn't make elemental DMP more effective.

If we want to account for elemental tattoos:
Robes: 50/50 + all 4 proofs + all available tattoo DMP
Splendours: 70/70 + all 4 proofs (and no need for cloaks and coats) + all available tattoo DMP
MasterTats: 84/84 (I remember 75/75 or 78/78) + 2 proofs + all available tattoo DMP
Plate: x/x + 2 proofs + all available tattoo DMP

Considering the fact that there are robes out there with stats as high as 75, 72/72 strikes me as low. 75/75 would be fine, and it'd only be 5 above the standard splendours goal.

Tattooarmor (in kata) doubles the effectiveness of dmp tattoos, so even if you restricted yourself to the types robes can get you'd get a total of 20 dmp to two of them, 30 to the other two (because of cloaks?). The thing is that robes can get there, with rng foodling. Tattoos get you there 100% of the time

A trade skill made for a class that usually has low DMP.... that has benefits that give more DMP? Gasp.

This was intelligent design to help offset the fact monks were made with no resistances, and if you want to bring up dodge. Let us do so, I would like to show you why it only proves my point.

Let's then bring up the reason that monks have low dmp (outside of psymet, which gives loads of dmp): offensive capability.
No one is arguing against the dmp feature of tattooarmor, or wanting it removed, it's just something you must consider when balancing the ability. You should notice that the suggested changes haven't been "Make tattoomaster worse off then robes, so that the dmp is balanced". It's "bring the armor stats in line with robes, leave the dmp advantage". You don't need both superior armor and superior dmp, you just don't.

Malarious:

A trade skill made for a class that usually has low DMP.... that has benefits that give more DMP? Gasp.

This was intelligent design to help offset the fact monks were made with no resistances, and if you want to bring up dodge. Let us do so, I would like to show you why it only proves my point.

Bards have virtually no DMP. Should we introduce a trade skill to give them massively superior defenses as well?

I have to parrot something stated when we first had this discussion on Monkish. The reason we did not end up envoying it (though a slot was up temporarily). Unlike other trade skills TattooMaster requires maintaining the skill, it should be better than the learn and drop armour skills, heck even fullplate is a forget skill now. If TattooMaster was retained without the trade skill like others I think it could fully just be a nice pair of splendors, in the meantime its only benefit is to give you nice armour.

If you think offensive capability has anything to do with damage mitigation, you need to review your guilds.

@Fool of Sound (quick edit): Sure, it isn't like they get illusoryself or ecology... wait. But in all seriousness the acro guilds were given low DMP because of dodge, but two nerfs later dodge is a far cry from the useful it once held. As I discussed with Rivius awhile ago, dodge at some point will just end up being better as DMP.

I don't think the fact that monks can get their armor levels 100% of the time should matter. Robe users want standardization for enchanting, and that makes sense. It's something that ought to happen (maybe Shuyin should throw this into the report).

Besides, people on this forum love to conflate possibility with assurance (See, Xenthos on how we should assume everyone can have 2 or 3 active tradeskills at once). And unlike Xentho's argument, I'm not asking people to invest 70 million essence or a god-awful amount of credits. Just lots of comms and gold, which I freely admit is worse off due to the comm changes and gold problems, but still not as severe.

If it's 84/84 (Can Malarious/Janalon confirm?), then sure, nerf it down to 75/75.


Edit: Still wondering why nanuki (chain drag) is on the nerf block when other skills aren't getting the same treatment.

Its 84/84 at max weight.

Sorry, other similar skills are not monk skills, Shuyin has no interest in addressing those. It is only unbalanced for the monk version of a skill to work like every other skill.

I think moving it down to 75/75 and making no other changes to it is quite fair (as Sahmiam suggests doing). You don't seem to be willing to reasonably discuss the problem.

@Chainyank: It was something that repeatedly kept coming up on envoys during the special report time, for various reasons. It came back when Draylor envoyed a pulling skill for Cantors, for instance, as an example of what not to do with a grabbing skill. The suggested change is probably too much, but we didn't hear anything from monk envoys on the problem. >_>