Can use mending to head to cure as well.

Rivius:

Can use mending to head to cure as well.

Fogot about that. Shouldn't be a problem then.

This is the 2nd revised version of the Shadow Manipulation idea, after taking into account feedback.

These are the newest changes compared to the second version:
1. Umbras are now called threads, from threads of binding. Arguably makes more thematic sense.
2. All shadow manipulation will now use up a short equilibrium time for every manipulation.
3. There is a new option to make shadow manipulation bypass the new equilibrium cost for 1p.
4. Warriors will now have a chance (20% for 1-handed, 40% for 2-handed) to generate threads on every knighthood attack.
5. Stolen shadows will decay on the Night user's or victim's death.
6. Swapped fractured skull for stupidity and added amnesia.
7. There is a new idea for Night to give aeon, unrelated to this idea which I will pitch if this idea does not pan out.

If there are any other comments or feedback that can be given regarding the mechanics of the idea, feel free to chime in!

I would appreciate more theorycrafting regarding the afflictions and potential output, but please understand that such ideas can only go so far. I am a bit hesitant on changing these before they even have the chance to be implemented, if ever. You won't know until you try, and so forth.

Personally, I think even with these changes, mana draining them down even under the burst afflictions of this idea will still be very difficult. But again, you won't know until you try.

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Shadow Manipulation (Version 3).

The basic theme is manipulating your victim's shadow in order to induce debilitating effects on him.

The skill works as follows:

Note: Asterisks (*) mean that the actual number may be subject to change.

-First, it requires that the victim's shadow be stolen (Night Steal). A Night user can only steal/possess one shadow at any given time.

-Next, threads of binding must be gathered from the victim (henceforth known as "threads"*) in order to empower the shadow enough to harm the victim.

-A shadow can only hold up to 5* threads at any given time.

-Threads are gathered through the use of various Night-related abilities, which are:
*Lash, Scourge, Nightkiss, Nightgaze

-Furthermore, all knighthood attacks have a chance to generate a thread every swing:
*20% for 1 handers.
*40% for 2 handers.

Note: Threads can only be gathered from a victim if you possess his or her shadow.

-Once a victim's shadow has been stolen, you can induce a variety of effects on the victim, as long as you pay the corresponding number of threads to do so. Syntax: SHADOWDANCE MANIPULATE (target) (effect)

-Here is a preliminary list of effects, sorted by cost:

1 thread:
*Sleep, Mana drain, Stupidity, Addiction, Amnesia

2 threads:
*Bleed, Throatlock, Leglock

3 threads:
*Blackout, Stun

Note: Any manipulation that costs more than 1 thread requires a wiccan athame to be wielded.

-The manipulation command consumes about 2* seconds of equilibrium.

-For 1* power, there is an option to empower the manipulation (ex: shadowdance manipulate shuyin sleep empowered), which will make the action consume no equilibrium when done.

-Harming the victim with this will use up the the corresponding amount of threads, which means that it will need to be gathered once more.

Changes to Skills:
-The following attacks will generate 1 thread per use: Nightkiss, Nightgaze, Scourge, Lash
-Knighthood attacks have a 33% chance to generate 1 thread every attack.
-Stolen shadows will decay upon the victim's or Night user's death.
-Night users may only steal one shadow from a person. Multiple Night users can't steal the same shadow.

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The point of this ability is to afford every Shadowdancer tertiary the chance to do a sleeplock, the staple of wiccan offense. This is achieved by allowing for sleepcloud/double hex for hexen and sleepcloud/manipulate sleep/sleep enchant for healers and astrologers. Once the sleeplock has been properly set, the Night user is free to continue sleeping the victim while at the same time slowly building up afflictions that will eventually lead him to be toaded. Note that all of the afflictions serve a purpose yet have cures which are easily managed by anyone with a decent system.

While it may be argued that some of the effects are very powerful, I would like to argue that the thread cost and the gathering mechanism serve to ensure that the afflictions are not overwhelming until the right circumstances. It is not possible to quickly gather enough threads to dispatch your opponent with ease. None of the afflictions by themselves are overly powerful. The purpose of aeon is to delay cures and waking enough to build enough afflictions for the toadcurse. It is not possible to replicate such a strong effect without utilizing other equally strong effects.

1v1:
Ideally, in my head, wiccan combat will center around this mechanic in the following way: sleeplock -> manipulate aff/tertiary ability or sleep -> gather threads -> repeat until you're set up -> kill

The above exactly replicates the how wiccans currently kill today, which is the entire point of suggesting a replacement mechanic for choke.

Groups:
Given the stolen shadow requirement, only one Night user may manipulate your shadow at any one time. The effect should be minimal, given that almost all of the afflictions that manipulations deal have cures. The effect on group combat should not be anything substantial compared to any other class.

Furthermore, threads cannot be "pre-built" against a victim prior to engaging them in combat due to the shadow requirement. Also, none of the strongest effects can be immediately unleashed without spending at least 6+ seconds stealing and then building threads.

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Why I like this over consume:
1. It is even more simple
2. It involves no new afflictions
3. It does not overly change the mechanics of any Night ability/
4. It does not have the potential to lock out cures quickly in group combat
5. It actually hinders curing
6. It helps -all- possible Shadowdancer tertiaries

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I GIVE UP, HERE'S AEON (alternate idea):

-Allow a stolen shadow to be crushed by the Night user for 2p that will afflict the owner of the shadow with a form of aeon that bypasses quicksilver. 2-3 seconds of equilibrium. This destroys the shadow and means that the Night user will have to steal it once more for future aeon attempts.

4. Warriors will now have a 33% chance to generate threads on every knighthood attack.

This needs to be edited to 33% for 2-handers and 16.5% for 1-handers, in the interest of parity. Further, it should probably only allow shadows to build in Nightaura is in effect, for purposes of RP.

Okay on the percent stuff.

Not sure on the Nightaura stuff.

TBH, I'm trying to think of an elegant solution to making the existing Night moves + warrior attacks generate threads. Adding the chance to every skill seems a bit too awkward to me, and I don't think requiring Nightkiss to do this would be particularly fair.

I'll think about that.

Edit: I changed the percentage chances to be rounder in number.

Small comment: we should consider the possibility of counter-stealing shadows. The original motivating concern here is a wargames with a Night user on each team, who preventatively steal their own team's shadows; also consider an enemy team disabling the primary shadow stealer (maze, etc) and someone else wants to take over.

Saqa:

Small comment: we should consider the possibility of counter-stealing shadows. The original motivating concern here is a wargames with a Night user on each team, who preventatively steal their own team's shadows; also consider an enemy team disabling the primary shadow stealer (maze, etc) and someone else wants to take over.

You can't maze in the arena. And from the sounds of it, you can't hold more than one shadow at a time, so that's kind of moot.

Shadow Manipulation (Version 3) is looking pretty solid. Should this be generally accepted by the community, it'd be good to apply this kind of focused development to other special reports too, one at a time.

I think you can't hold more than one shadow of a target, not in total. I don't think anything 'counter' is necessary here, it's just a buildup. You can't counter everybody's buildups either, like SS spirits. Just be smart about it when they start executing their strat and you'll neutralize it.

I'm liking the idea of Shadow Manipulation now, though still not sold on Warriors getting free build up though.

Dunno if I like the passive generation of threads for warriors, but if they're limited to the weaker afflictions and it costs them balance then at least it's not entirely free.

Warriors just wouldn't use it at all if they weren't able to gain it through normal strikes. I don't really see a large different between requiring SD's to use lash/nightkiss etc and letting warriors gain is at a much lower % while building wounds

With active building, it would just require sacrificing some eqs to get the shadows, forcing it to be used more stragetically.

Passive gain with its own EQ is just asking for problems. Even with a 1p cost to do it eq free, you're still going to get:

shadow attack
beast attack
knight attack/poison
knight attack poison

I'd rather just head off that happening at the pass. If that fails, then we have to be very, very, very careful about what afflictions EG get to use with it.

What's wrong with that combination every 12s at best?

There's beast balance, and shadow attacks require buildup - using them will also use them up, unlike certain monk moves...

Vadi:

What's wrong with that combination every 12s at best?

There's beast balance, and shadow attacks require buildup - using them will also use them up, unlike certain monk moves...

And monks are considered OP, so we don't want to balance around that. Definitely should be active building based on Vadi's point along.

And monks are considered OP, so we don't want to balance around that. Definitely should be active building based on Vadi's point along.

His point was that it would already be more restricted than monk moves, not that it would be equal to them. :P

Xenthos:

His point was that it would already be more restricted than monk moves, not that it would be equal to them. :P

Monk moves eat up momentum and power, and it's basically a mini-momentum format. So...even if it's less than monk moves, it doesn't mean it's a good thing.

And momentum decays with time and target change.

Monk moves eat up momentum and power, and it's basically a mini-momentum format. So...even if it's less than monk moves, it doesn't mean it's a good thing.

And momentum decays with time and target change.

Shadows decay with time and can't be used on a separate target... at all.

Add a power cost for weapons to generate shadows and require stealing the shadow. This way it is never free, and still has limitations.

Addiction should be 2 shadows.

Still prefer stupidity, mental aff = jinx.

Go with the aeon idea, simple, elegant.

Malarious:

Go with the aeon idea, simple, elegant.

...and not particularly unique, interesting, or wanted by the admins. See Estarra's post on the subject.

Also, if the aeon idea is active, it would create problems since Lash is active. See the old complaints when Moon had Wane + Lash and Night had Choke + Succumb (read: there was a reason Lash and Succumb switched places).

I also support stupidity over fracturedskull, as well has weapons having a 10-20% chance of producing shadowthreads when Nightkiss (10p) is up. Addiction might also need to be moved up to 2 shadowthreads.

I dislike the 1p requirement for it to be eq-less, mainly because we already have to 'charge it up' with other Night abilities, so it's not like we can wtfgank people (and since stolen shadows decay after 10 minutes, it's not like we can pre-build over the course of a number of hours and then jump out suddenly).