Rainydays:

In addition to that, are MDs required to take a certain tert to actually kill?

To stick aeon 'comfortably', Hexes is pretty much the way to go.

Succumb allows a lot more leeway for other tertiaries though. The main problem with succumb is that it has absolutely zero stacking capability in groups.

PS Estarra: Choke is the core skill of the skillset for SDs. It can't just be excised.

Rainydays:

Question from a peanut in the gallery.


How do MDs kill, in other words, how do they manage to land aeon against a no-speed defense target, and stick it long enough to matter?

I remember a conversation on Ashteru's departed clan that went like this:

Day 1:
(Skeleton Hearth): You say, "Blarg choke blarg."

(Skeleton Hearth): Chokefan\\o/ says, "Lol, choke is fine. MDs have aeon."

Day 2 or 3 or something:

(Skeleton Hearth): You say, "What if SDs had a more traditional aeon system instead of choke?"

(Skeleton Hearth): Chokefan\\o/ says, "Lol no, aeon sux."


In addition to that, are MDs required to take a certain tert to actually kill?


EDIT: Also, if it is going to be aeon++, then it doesn't need a succumb version, that would just be following some insane logic that SD must be MD++. Of course, if it isn't going to be aeon++, the above statement isn't really relevant.

The current idea isn't really aeon++, more like aeon version B. I agree that if they get aeon++, they shouldn't get succumb. But if they get plain aeon, that's where I'd like to look into something like succumb.

RE: keep choke - I'm not sure suggesting that we keep a mechanic that they said we should delete will fly.

They said it would be easier to delete it, because of complaints.

So see if the nay sayers have a better fix for it.

Everyone ends up happy, the alternative is likely to have just as much crying/whining/fits. And does not punish the SD for casting (as it shouldnt).

Xenthos:

To stick aeon 'comfortably', Hexes is pretty much the way to go.

Succumb allows a lot more leeway for other tertiaries though. The main problem with succumb is that it has absolutely zero stacking capability in groups.

Agree. When MD got succumb over lash, how we killed only changed slightly. We just got more leeway in terms of maintaining the aeon sleeplock. The emphasis went towards a faster power-lighter aeonlock leading to toad, whereas before you had to lash 3-4 times, so you could put more power into the lock since you could regen the power back.

If SD gets aeon, and both MD and SD get either lash or succumb, SD is going to come out ahead with better offense.

What would be aeon++ anyway?

Aeon that goes ahead and skips the quicksilver part, so in theory you have a much smaller window needed asleep.

If it wasn't clear, we are getting rid of choke. I'm done with dealing with it.

I'm not crazy about the aeon idea so other ideas welcome!

(I still liked my idea...)

That idea sounds nice, but in practice, unpredictability is not desired. It's why in part Astrology isn't too popular either.

There's a bit of a disconnect between practice and theory here...

Yeah, I like the idea too, but what if we simply moved the cycling affs mechanic to a new move instead of certain Night attacks?

It would be easier to strategize that way since you won't run the risk of triggering your affs until you want them to.

So for example...

We'll call it Bind. It'll cost 1p and 3s of eq.

All this attack will do is strip quicksilver/insomnia and increment the threadcount. Then, depending on the number of threads, it will cycle through afflictions, which will be masked under a generic line.

Example:

Shuyin whips his hand out towards you, sending a tendril of shadow to whip at your face.
You feel your body falter under the supremity of Mother Night.

^Same line regardless of what thread count the aff is at.

So here's a rough list that I totally didn't play test, but it's probably gonna be something like this:

1= Nothing
2= Sleep
3= Aeon
4= Leglock
5= Aeon
6= Throatlock
7= Stun
8 = Reset

It's a work in progress, basically I want the bottom half to stick aeon, then it will slowly build up as you get to the higher end.

Example of the actual aff cycle:

Attack1: insomnia gone / quicksilver gone
Attack2: insomnia gone / quicksilver gone / sleep
Attack3: insomnia gone / quicksilver gone / aeon

And so forth.

----------------------------------

This idea keeps the thread cycling aff but it does it so there is a better strategic component to it.

Edit: You know what would be pretty awesome? If you're able to do this without incrementing the thread count, to fake people out. Oh well, maybe that can be envoyed if this is accepted.

Note: You won't be able to specify what affs will fire at what thread. It will always be what we decide on after testing / theorycrafting.

Sojiro:

Yeah, I like the idea too, but what if we simply moved the cycling affs mechanic to a new move instead of certain Night attacks?

It would be easier to strategize that way since you won't run the risk of triggering your affs until you want them to.

So for example...

We'll call it Bind. It'll cost 1p and 3s of eq.

All this attack will do is strip quicksilver/insomnia and increment the threadcount. Then, depending on the number of threads, it will cycle through afflictions, which will be masked under a generic line.

Example:

Shuyin whips his hand out towards you, sending a tendril of shadow to whip at your face.
You feel your body falter under the supremity of Mother Night.

^Same line regardless of what thread count the aff is at.

So here's a rough list that I totally didn't play test, but it's probably gonna be something like this:

1= Nothing
2= Sleep
3= Aeon
4= Leglock
5= Aeon
6= Throatlock
7= Stun
8 = Reset

It's a work in progress, basically I want the bottom half to stick aeon, then it will slowly build up as you get to the higher end.

Example of the actual aff cycle:

Attack1: insomnia gone / quicksilver gone
Attack2: insomnia gone / quicksilver gone / sleep
Attack3: insomnia gone / quicksilver gone / aeon

And so forth.

----------------------------------

This idea keeps the thread cycling aff but it does it so there is a better strategic component to it.

Edit: You know what would be pretty awesome? If you're able to do this without incrementing the thread count, to fake people out. Oh well, maybe that can be envoyed if this is accepted.

Note: You won't be able to specify what affs will fire at what thread. It will always be what we decide on after testing / theorycrafting.

I like the idea. Good job of thinking outside of the box and coming up with ideas! We spend too much time worrying instead of moving forward with new ideas.

Some play on that:

Call the skill SHADOWTWIST, which you can use after you steal a target's shadow. You then twist the shadow. After 7 twists (or 10?), the shadow is destroyed and the target is stunned and takes damage (or something). Wondering if mana drain may not be better than insomnia. (Having it remove insomnia+sleep seems pretty strong.) Not sure if double affliction should be on every twist. You still need to steal the shadow and if it's a double on every other attack, could be a 0p move.

1= manadrain
2= manadrain+Sleep
3= manadrain
4= manadrain+Aeon
5= manadrain
6= manadrain+Leglock
7= manadrain
8 = manadrain+Throatlock
9= manadrain
10= manadrain+Stun+damage (as shadow is destroyed)

Once again, I'll state that I think manadrain synergizes too well with the rest of glom.

The one issue with that immediately comes to mind is that a single affliction of aeon, without a way to strip quicksilver or do aeon two balances in a row has no chance of being effective. It'll essentially strip quicksilver and the def will be back before the next time aeon comes up. Though that's an easy enough fix to modify the skill around.

Edit: I would also suggest a way to release a shadow before its fully used up. In case for instance the SD wanted to stick mainly to lower level afflictions or give the combo another try. Not sure if they can do that right now or not.

Might've been said before but - I understand the decay time on stolen shadows is rather random, which could cause a problem if the skill requires it. This is an easy fix though I guess :)

The single aeon will never happen for SDs. While an EG can raze quicksilver, an SD can't.

Mhmm, and a single sleep attack is very meh, trust me- I'd know.

In theory they could still pooka metawake off, time it to pixie, use beast sleepcloud, and then use the sleep aff, but you'd see that coming a mile away (just count how many times they've hit you, easy peasy) and shield to avoid the pixie (or just kill the pixie/pooka).

Yeah. My idea strips insomnia and quicksilver fevery time its invoked for a reason, cause aeon and sleep need double ticks to be useful . Let me work on it some more.

Once again, I'll state that I think manadrain synergizes too well with the rest of glom.


Erm, you do know that wiccans are built around manadrain, right?

I don't think astro/healing should even be taken into account. Everyone knows hexes is the way to go for wiccans and that is what we should be balancing around. If you want to make astro/healing viable as well, you'd need to consider something that doesn't benefit hexes as much but somehow helps the other two terts.

Enyalida:

.... but you'd see that coming a mile away (just count how many times they've hit you, easy peasy) and shield to avoid the pixie (or just kill the pixie/pooka).

This doesn't sound like a good reason for anything more than a single sleep attack to me. Wiccans are capable of timing their ents and using open channels to keep them safe until needed.

I can cave on the insomnia thing regarding my idea, but it definitely needs to strip quicksilver each tick at least.

Stripping quicksilver doesn't bother me too much. How long would you make the stun with 7 threads? I'd imagine you'd want something significant but not to the level of inqui/bardquisition...

Do the number of threads reset after a fixed time, or if a new target is threaded?