Naia:

Stolen shadows don't last long. Maybe 5 minutes. But you can only steal one shadow already so I don't see what you want to change, if anyone else has stolen it you get a message stating so.

Shadows don't disappear on a target's death. So maybe you can steal a second shadow that way, not sure.

I've seen stolen shadows poof in 50 seconds too, so the timer will need to be looked at.

I definately like this version a lot better, though I don't like the idea of adding an instakill based on it; we don't need any more "run or die" mechanics (a la Rubies or Vessels). I'm not sure adding a mana/bleed penalty for curse time out is a good plan either, since that means that, by staying in the room and being curse, the SD is setting up for his instakill, and by running away, the only way to cure said setup, the SD is still setting up his insta based on the bleed/mana drain I would also lean towards a 1p cost if we are sticking with this idea, since it would require several layers of curses in order to set up for Toadcurse, and Toadcurse is power intensive..

As to your critique of my suggestion, yes, Focus Spirit is mana intensive,however, focusing out of Witch's Blood would also allow the victim to immediately sip mana, read heal scroll, ect. and cancle out most of the damage done. Further, it creates an interesting situation in which the victim must choose between the cost to his mana (focus) or the cost of attrition to his vitals (not curing). Remember also that Toadcurse is 8 power, and thus a Shadowdancer could not rely on spamming Witch's Blood in order to attrition mana through Focus Spirit while still having a hope of Toadcursing. I would like to repeat my statement that my suggestion accomplishes the same ends (attritioning of opponent's vitals, particularly mana), while being significantly more simple and less centralizing to SD combat.

"Changes to other skills: -Only allow one shadow to be stolen per victim. Once it is stolen by a Night user, no other shadows can be stolen from the victim until the initial shadow is absorbed/decays."

That's how it already, currently is...

edit: who says we don't need more "run or die" mechanics? Admins added rubies relatively recently - they certainly don't agree with that motion...

Except... More recently, they removed that feature from them, they no longer outright kill you when you get shatterplexed, so obviously they do agree.

EDIT: And even more recently, they made it easier to track the curing of vessels, also!

Vadi:

edit: who says we don't need more "run or die" mechanics? Admins added rubies relatively recently - they certainly don't agree with that motion...

And they promptly nerfed them. They no longer instakill you.

Enyalida:

EDIT: And even more recently, they made it easier to track the curing of vessels, also!

You're welcome.

Vadi:

"Changes to other skills: -Only allow one shadow to be stolen per victim. Once it is stolen by a Night user, no other shadows can be stolen from the victim until the initial shadow is absorbed/decays."

That's how it already, currently is...

My bad, I'll edit and remove that. Probably need to standardize the length of time before a shadow decays then.

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I'm not sure I'm following. The admin haven't explicitly stated whether run or die is fine or not, but considering their prevalence in other skills (phantomspheres, rubies, inquisition, vessels, and so forth), I'm inclined to say that they're fine with the idea.

Being fine with an idea and changing things so said that idea is balanced are not mutually exclusive. For instance, for every report that nerfed rubies/shatterplex, we can then bring up the fact that phantomspheres are still relatively the same even after reports addressing them have been made. So has inquisition.

Btw, even if vessels were made easier to track, they still will kill you eventually. That mechanic hasn't changed at all.

Keep in mind that MDs have succumb+darkmoon+wane to equal choke. Consume so far does not equal that combination.

Teehee, Dark moon, that's funny.

I do think that being able to build up then essentially lock down all vitals curing for two/three rounds of curing is pretty darn potent. Especially as this presents use both in single combat and in groups.

Vadi:

Keep in mind that MDs have succumb+darkmoon+wane to equal choke. Consume so far does not equal that combination.

Love to hear your suggestions Vadi. Actually, I would love to hear suggestions from Night users (and former Night users) in general.

Read the Brumetower idea. It's to address the concern that wiccans don't have too many movement hinderers outside of pigwidgeon, and Night is more dependent on keeping someone in a room than Moon.

You want movement hindering? :blink: I was told that was not what was needed.

Edited repost of my original, movement hindering, idea.

Shadowbind (alt name: Nighthunter):
Empower your foe's shadow into a wyrden beast that harries their steps and tears at their bodies.
3 power, requires and expends stolen shadow. Lasts 60s, no cure. Give all voluntary movements a 33% rejection rate, with balance loss, proning, and 200ish bleeding on rejection. Shadow may not be re-stolen while in effect.

Actually, if the issue is that there isn't any way for the SD to hold someone down from escaping now that an aeon effect is gone, movement hindering would be good.

Incidentally, such things will also help address Solanis' (?) concern that nothing about the consume idea properly stops people from escaping anyway. And if you get this done via a brumetower change, maybe the ah....very loud concerns that have been repeatedly aired about it will finally stop.

Here's my idea for movement hinder too:

Brumetower ver. 2 - 3p* and 2* shadows, stops all physical movement (not elevation movement), drops when the Night user moves away, when shadows fade, or when the Night user dies. Cannot be used in a room with bonds dropped. Lasts 3* minutes.

Note = asterisk (*) means subject to change.

A 100% physical movement blocker seems like a really bad idea.

Tell that to barrier, an ability that is far more available compared to this.

We can even add a timer to it and not make it perpetual like barrier. Plus a power cost.

Sojiro:

Tell that to barrier, an ability that is far more available compared to this.

We can even add a timer to it and not make it perpetual like barrier. Plus a power cost.

BARRIER
Channels: Substratus
-> Power: 10 (any) <-
And you can force the user out of the Barrier in order to drop it.

Well sure, it can be worth 10p if it will last forever. I think if it's on a timer, then it should cost less. I think that's fair.

Plus I already said my idea states that you can also move the Night user in order to drop it.

drops when Night user moves away and/or when shadows fade

Sojiro:

Well sure, it can be worth 10p if it will last forever. I think if it's on a timer, then it should cost less. I think that's fair.

3 minutes hardly qualifies as a timer. You will hardly ever see a Barrier last that long unless there are at least 2 TKers keeping them up simulateously. And again, you have to sacrifice one of your channels in order to keep it up.

This also allows a SD to block chokepoints to prevent group movement for only 3 power every 3 minutes.

Man.

I just threw those numbers out. It can be 1 minute for 9p for all I care so long as it's something useful and not OP. The important part is the idea, don't get caught up in the numbers, because I have about as much of an idea about that as any other person.

RE: high move resist / distort - Bummer there. Can't do much about people with high summon resist and distort. Distort shouldn't affect this skill since it's for physical movement, so if we're assuming a defense situation, this already happens with mages and TK, and doesn't adversely affect a group to a game-breaking extent.

The more I consider the Wytch's Blood idea, the more I dislike it.

First off, to even get to 750 mana / ego drained on a sip, you need the target to sip for 3,000... which, well, is pretty much never going to happen. The numbers would have to be tweaked dramatically.

Even leaving aside the lopsided numbers in the idea, consider this:
Shadowdancer is trying to drain your mana. You sip mana. You take a negligible amount of health and ego damage... and then you eat a sparkleberry and / or read a scroll.

Why bother curing it? You can just tank the thing since it's affecting stats which aren't relevant to the combat style being pursued.

It would need to be at least 50% in each to have any real effect, along with reducing the healing of sparkleberry / scrolls, which for some reason I don't really think would go over very well in this discussion.