Personally, I'm really not fond of decaying essence that hits everyone. I've got enough problems keeping my herb count up to worry about bashing/influencing :( The version Xenthos suggests sounds fine to me though.

Ixion:

Skillflexing with essence isn't needed either, 25/50 lessons is trivial at best.

I just want to add this: For some of us, 25/50 lessons is _not_ trivial.

Xenthos:

An essence cap is important because otherwise the system is going to be balanced around the 'top people'. Raising essence costs for things punishes everyone else who does not autobash their life away.

It is absolutely needed.

Edit: PS, it's not 'skillflexing with essence'. It is 'a new system to swap out Demigod power abilities that is being compared to skillflex,' so it wouldn't use lessons anyways... I'm not convinced it needs an essence cost, especially if there is a decay, but definitely wouldn't be done with lessons.

So punishing the few who have spent so much time over the last several years of their life getting to the point where they wont have to worry about essence/hunting again is a better idea than better weight limit management for demigods/ascendants?

Essence is not the limiter, weight is, and is directly controlled by the admin so where's the issue here to begin with?

Ixion:


So punishing the few who have spent so much time over the last several years of their life getting to the point where they wont have to worry about essence/hunting again is a better idea than better weight limit management for demigods/ascendants?

Essence is not the limiter, weight is, and is directly controlled by the admin so where's the issue here to begin with?

'Punishing' the few is better than punishing the many. There are a whole 9 people with >200m essence, and more than 180 people with less than that.

I'd much rather take a loss and have the thing reasonably balanced so that everyone can enjoy it, instead of balancing the entire system around the few (and thus locking out the majority of the playerbase).

I suppose you didn't actually read my post. I have the same limit on what powers I can get along with the other 180.

Ixion:

I suppose you didn't actually read my post. I have the same limit on what powers I can get along with the other 180.

I suppose you didn't actually read my post, where having more essence would allow you to have more active at once... as well as being able to purchase the rest of them and swap around to the ones you want to use, instead of being limited to just the original 50 weight worth that you bought.

Edit: And even if you don't bash up for the extra weight value, you still have the option to buy everything and swap it as desired.

Estarra the Eternal says, "We had a lot of complaints that there was a perception you -had- to be a demigod to engage in combat, and we wanted to move away from a lot of combat advantages for demigods, but this report seems to really want to beef up demigods."

Yet Estarra wants to go in the direction of not having demigod be a necessity for combat. How is allowing more powers accomplishing that end?

Ixion:

Estarra the Eternal says, "We had a lot of complaints that there was a perception you -had- to be a demigod to engage in combat, and we wanted to move away from a lot of combat advantages for demigods, but this report seems to really want to beef up demigods."

Yet Estarra wants to go in the direction of not having demigod be a necessity for combat. How is allowing more powers accomplishing that end?

Because not a lot of the powers are really combat related, or their impact is relatively minor compared to other things.

That one's pretty clear to me... especially since in the discussion that you clipped from she's discussing adding in both additional options to choose from as well as increasing weight. The increased weight idea for essence accumulated idea came from her!

So fearaura, aegis, destruction, the beast powers, etc being possible all at once is a good thing?

Ixion:

So fearaura, aegis, destruction, the beast powers, etc being possible all at once is a good thing?

I don't even know what to say. You appear to be flailing around randomly in order to save a favoured niche that a whole 9 people in the game qualify for.

At absolute maximum, with my idea, a person would be able to get to 200 weight; the other skills would be dormant (and when dormant you can't even use them, that's what being 'inactive' means). The current maximum right now is 180, so that extra 20 weight points is not going to suddenly allow a person to grab a ton of extra powers. It allows a little more freedom and leeway for the people who have a lot of essence to use.

More freedom / leeway is a good thing! It's also not enough to be overpowered...

Enyalida:


Yes, that's kind of what I meant. The things that are just minor flavor should approach being free. Many of the current Ascendant powers are guilty of being too much for what they do, as I'd say about 70% of them are for mere flavor (as they are substantially weaker then other options), but still cost outrageous weights.

I completely disagree. Flavor should not be free and unlimited. I think that would make demigods incredibly boring to have them all the same rather than diverse. Also, there is a certain amount of prestige to having invest in some flavor skills just for the sake of being unique or uncommon which is a benefit in and of itself. (Maybe not everyone will agree and so they won't invest in those flavor skills but I also have no problem with that.)

Again, this may be a fundamental philosophic difference but I have pretty strong feelings on it.

I agree with Estarra on the cost of flavour. I only want to add more options! *rally*

Xenthos:

I don't even know what to say. You appear to be flailing around randomly in order to save a favoured niche that a whole 9 people in the game qualify for.

At absolute maximum, with my idea, a person would be able to get to 200 weight; the other skills would be dormant (and when dormant you can't even use them, that's what being 'inactive' means). The current maximum right now is 180, so that extra 20 weight points is not going to suddenly allow a person to grab a ton of extra powers. It allows a little more freedom and leeway for the people who have a lot of essence to use.

More freedom / leeway is a good thing! It's also not enough to be overpowered...

Provide a concise and well fleshed out argument for why essence should be capped and then it might be received better. You don't speak for the top couple and 200m essence is a pittance compared to the over 600m at the top. More importantly, completely negating so much of someone's time and effort will always be a bad idea when issues related to such can be managed better in other ways.

What's this fascination with earning more weight? How is a niche favored when we have the same limits on what powers we can use as everyone else?

Ixion:



Provide a concise and well fleshed out argument for why essence should be capped and then it might be received better. You don't speak for the top couple and 200m essence is a pittance compared to the over 600m at the top. More importantly, completely negating so much of someone's time and effort will always be a bad idea when issues related to such can be managed better in other ways.

What's this fascination with earning more weight? How is a niche favored when we have the same limits on what powers we can use as everyone else?

It is because of another statement made in that clip, as well as in this thread. When people have more than 'half a billion essence,' the reaction from the Administration is a desire to increase costs (costs which are already high). This means that a very, very small segment of the population have an extremely negative impact on the rest of the playerbase as a whole.

Balancing around a handful of people is completely absurd when, with a simple cap, the playing field can be leveled and actual balance can be achieved for everyone.

Earning more weight is simply a suggested perk for having more essence; if you really don't want it, then it can be scrapped. The cap itself is still essential in my opinion, I don't care as much about the extra weight personally.

Edit: As long as the Demigod ability flexing goes in, at least! That's another thing I see as 'very important' in this discussion. Additional weighting, not so much.

As one who doesn't have 200 million essence, I don't see a need for an essence cap at all. Perhaps deminishing returns after 500 million, but aside from that, there's no need for a hard cap. As per Ixion's point, the hard cap already exists through weight, and a hard cap on essense is redundant.

@Xenthos: Missed your post, but that sounds like a problem from the administrative end. I would hope that they have enough common sense to balance a hard-capped system around the average player and not the outliers.

On an unrelated note. My biggest concern with raising weight is that it still allows ascendants who do have access to more of those combat abilities to horde even more of them at once over the rest of us plebs.

Perhaps a good list of demigod powers that are equally as appealing would help, but that relies on us coming up with good ideas. Of which I have none!

As one who doesn't have 200 million essence, I don't see a need for an essence cap at all. Perhaps deminishing returns after 500 million, but aside from that, there's no need for a hard cap. As per Ixion's point, the hard cap already exists through weight, and a hard cap on essense is redundant.

It's really easy to say that until they are talking about raising costs. For people who actually want to buy Demigod abilities, that is.

As someone who is likely never to see anything above 100mil essence in his lifetime, I would sure hate to see the cost of abilities increase. I feel for the people who have an obscene amount of essence to spare, but I already struggle to buy the small things. The thought of having to bash more to buy the things I'd like to play with sounds like demigod won't be worth working for anymore. I'm sure a lot of us mere humans (with jobs and school) who enjoy the cost range the way it is will be extraordinarily disappointed if the cost of the things we have--and the future cool ideas--increases to spare the feelings of someone with, again, a HUGE net worth.

(is it too soon to make "we are the 99%" jokes?)

I think raising costs AND capping essence is unnecessary - and I feel like increasing costs penalises those who aren't sitting on a huge vat of essence/are not going to. I would much rather just see a cap, and more options for things to do with essence.