Viscanti:
-1 Sip Penalty, total = 1.

Viscanti are outclasses by other races in essentially every archetype in terms of stats. Though their strong resistances and taint regen are intended to make up for this, they suffer a significant malus to healing that neutralizes some of this effect.

Taurian:
Add +1 Balance bonus while Enraged.


Taurian, while by no means a weak race, simply does not have enough draw points to bring any warriors to the race. By allowing raging Taurians a balance bonus, along with their impressive STR, this may help draw some warriors to Taurians, while also retaining the racial identity as either herd warriors or solo warrios.

:)

I've been also told to talk about adding the +1 strength back to shadowlord faelings.

So let's talk about it all: viscanti, shadowlords, whatever.

Please make as concise a case as you can without being too...passionate about it.

I'm fine with +1 STR for Shadowlord, especially with the DEX change proposition.

I know this is a little late to be discussing this, or may have already been discussed and thrown out, but what ever happened to the Racial Skills ideas talked about?

ViVi has some on his site, http://sites.google.com/site/xieltalnara/RacialSkills

Anyways, just a thought.

Aslaran:

• Scent
  


• Syntax: SCENT
  


The basic ability to perceive the scents of those who dwell in your same general area.

wat. Aslaran certainly don't need free scent as a racial feature, though I would be more OK with it on Lobos.

Igasho & Tae'dae:

• Immensity
  


• Syntax: BREAK FREE
  


No mere bonds will contain your immense form as you will yourself to instantly break free of any entanglements you may come across.

Please no, unless this is basically just physical tipheret.

The rest are pretty cool, for the most part.

Well I wasn't suggesting that they were the be all and end all, but some suggestions to get creative juices flowing :)

foolofsound:

I'm fine with +1 STR for Shadowlord, especially with the DEX change proposition.

What does the DEX change proposition have to do with strength? Nothing, really, and shadowlord faelings will be gettingbuffed from that proposition anyway.

A scent skill? Sure! Not one that imitates the Druid skill though.

I'd like to see one that is like... a scent version of squint for Loboshigaru.

For Example:
SNIFF

Not sure what are the advantages to that. I guess it could be something like being able to smell what's behind a wall or barrier that you can't squint or glance past with your eyes.

Just an idea... not like I expect any implementations of new racial skills. >_> Unless you guys decide to nerf Lobo regen and add something new to offset it.

What does the DEX change proposition have to do with strength? Nothing, really, and shadowlord faelings will be gettingbuffed from that proposition anyway.

Unless I misunderstood the proposal, the impact of DEX on aff procing would be reduced or eliminated, and instead standardized at 16ish. In my mind, this would mean that Faeling warriors, and only Faeling warriors, would see a slight nerf, hence justifying +1 STR.

foolofsound:

Unless I misunderstood the proposal, the impact of DEX on aff procing would be reduced or eliminated, and instead standardized at 16ish. In my mind, this would mean that Faeling warriors, and only Faeling warriors, would see a slight nerf, hence justifying +1 STR.

http://forums.lusternia.com/index.php?showtopic=20508&view=findpost&p=857435
I explain what the nerf is trying to do there.

http://forums.luster...ndpost&p=857435
I explain what the nerf is trying to do there.

Ah, I see. My understanding was the opposite; that defensive Dexterity go unedited while standardizing aff proc rates.

Sojiro:

I've been also told to talk about adding the +1 strength back to shadowlord faelings.

So let's talk about it all: viscanti, shadowlords, whatever.

Please make as concise a case as you can without being too...passionate about it.

Concise case:
Aslaran do what the specialized warrior Faeling race do, and they do it better.

+1 strength for Shadowlords still leaves them a point below Aslaran, but helps bridge the gap (and the other Faeling benefits work for the rest of it).

A two-strength-point difference, especially at the range where they have a large impact (17-19), just leaves Faeling warriors suffering when trying to build an offense at the same speed.

Concise point against Shadowlords getting +1 strength:
- It's not true that specialized races have to be the best (I'm willing to concede the point if Viscanti have their sip penalty removed)
- Sip bonus does count for something
- Aslaran have some major drawbacks that faelings do not have.

-Warriors are also getting buffed.
-Pending change to Dexterity, high dex warriors will see benefit from it.

1) A spec race, that has a focus on speed, should be as good as another race that has the same speed focus.
2) Sip bonus counts for something, sure. It does not make up for the gulf in strength for warriors. Especially when its main thing is as the counterbalance to low con (primarily for non-warriors); this leaves Faelings much more fragile as burst damage goes.
3) Aslaran have bonuses that faelings don't have as well; this includes more constitution, more intelligence, more strength (which they would still have), and improved equilibrium recovery (which warriors do in fact use from time to time, especially for things that are resistant to bashing attacks. The improved int and EQ recovery make Nightkiss and Nightgaze much more useable).

Xenthos:

1) A spec race, that has a focus on speed, should be as good as another race that has the same speed focus.

This more than anything. There should be strong incentive for players to play their org's spec race(s). I would really like to ask for more for Viscanti too, but I don't feel that people (or admins) will go for it.

Concise point against Shadowlords getting +1 strength:
- It's not true that specialized races have to be the best (I'm willing to concede the point if Viscanti have their sip penalty removed)
- Sip bonus does count for something
- Aslaran have some major drawbacks that faelings do not have.

-Warriors are also getting buffed.
-Pending change to Dexterity, high dex warriors will see benefit from it.



This. At the end of the day, speed knights are king.

Only one org gets the benefit of speed knights as a spec race.

Unless faelings get an actual weakness to go along with that buff, they really will be the master race.

Stick with the races we started with. There's a reason they were cut off where they were. Leave out the 11th hour pork-barrel horsecrap.

foolofsound:

This more than anything. There should be strong incentive for players to play their org's spec race(s). I would really like to ask for more for Viscanti too, but I don't feel that people (or admins) will go for it.

Which is why I'm willing to look at Shadowlords if Viscanti get their sip malus removed.
All of Xentho's statements have been said about specced Viscanti in relation to other races within their own archetypes.

That said, I do think that there's exaggeration going on for Shadowlords and how off they are when compared to aslaran. Are there differences? Yes. I question how convenient the comparisons are, however.

Aslaran have more con, but a level 2 fire weakness. Faelings have lower con, but a sip bonus. How much weight these differences hold is arbitrary, sadly, and I come down on the other side of the fence and say that shadowlords are just fine, that their advantages are being undervalued and their disadvantages being over emphasized.

EDIT: Supporting Rainydays's take on this.

Also, that level 1 con bonus merian might be getting is pretty piddly in comparison to the viscanti sip malus being reduced.

If that goes through, +2 con for all merian, no penalty for knights, and drop the elemental weaknesses down a level. I figure, if we're going to cram siginifcant changes in at the last moment for two races that weren't initially even on the list, it is only fair to look at the other races in relative context of those changes!

No, I'm not entirely serious, I'm mostly just making a point. Objectively, are those sip maluses painful?

Of course!

But if we're recuding the viscanti sip malus, we damn well better be reducing the dracnari sip malus. After all, they have a level 3 elemental malus on TOP of that sip penalty! Should they be ignored because they don't have someone in this thread stumping for them?

Apparently so.

Which is exactly what this is. Last minute pork-barrel "I'll vote for your buff if you vote for mine" garbage.

EDIT- though honestly, dracs and viscanti are hurting more for that sip malus than faelings ever are for that strength,

Akui pretty much has the right of it.

Which is why I'm willing to look at Shadowlords if Viscanti get their sip malus removed.
All of Xentho's statements have been said about specced Viscanti in relation to other races within their own archetypes.

That said, I do think that there's exaggeration going on for Shadowlords and how off they are when compared to aslaran. Are there differences? Yes. I question how convenient the comparisons are, however.

Aslaran have more con, but a level 2 fire weakness. Faelings have lower con, but a sip bonus. How much weight these differences hold is arbitrary, sadly, and I come down on the other side of the fence and say that shadowlords are just fine, that their advantages are being undervalued and their disadvantages being over emphasized.

EDIT: Supporting Rainydays's take on this.

The difference in two strength points, from 17->19, isn't exactly arbitrary however... as the primary stat for a warrior, which drives wounding & afflictions (everything that a warrior aims for). More dex does nothing if you don't get the wounds to take advantage of 'em.

Further, I feel Akui's point would be more relevant if we were asking for equal strength to Aslaran, or if we were asking for something that did not already exist previously; the strength point was removed 'out of the blue' in the previous racial discussion, with the comment 'we don't really think this will have that much of a difference'. We're not. Aslaran will still be better in taking advantage of the speed bonus.

So, to me, the claims that this will make Faelings the 'master race' (seriously, Faelings weren't the master race earlier either prior to losing 1 strength point either) are exaggerated themselves.