Rainydays:

Leave out the 11th hour pork-barrel horsecrap.

1) Shuyin asked us for other suggestions.
2) I really wish you would stop calling it that. It really isn't enough for a race to be "playable" by your definition (which seems to to be "has" 10+ Con). The intention for all races is for them to have a role or roles in which they can be considered a competitive choice; hence my suggestions for Viscanti and Taurians. Spec races in particular should be able to fulfill most roles within that org. Not nessicarily the best, but certainly competing for the position. I agree that Faelings are too powerful (as are Aslarans), but the place to fix that is Faelings as a whole, not Shadowlords.

Rainydays:

Also, that level 1 con bonus merian might be getting is pretty piddly in comparison to the viscanti sip malus being reduced.

If that goes through, +2 con for all merian, no penalty for knights, and drop the elemental weaknesses down a level. I figure, if we're going to cram siginifcant changes in at the last moment for two races that weren't initially even on the list, it is only fair to look at the other races in relative context of those changes!

That's insane. A 7% (I believe) increase in the amount potions (and only potions) heal is hardly worth +2 Con to a spec race that already has fairly impressive stats, along with a Lv.2 EQ bonus (which is a substancial factor).

Rainydays:

But if we're recuding the viscanti sip malus, we damn well better be reducing the dracnari sip malus. After all, they have a level 3 elemental malus on TOP of that sip penalty! Should they be ignored because they don't have someone in this thread stumping for them?

Apparently so.

I didn't realize that Dracnari have Lv2 malus as well.


More suggestions:
-1 Sip Malus to Dracnari as well.
-1 Sip Bonus to Faelings.
+1 Herb Malus to Aslaran

(De-mastering the master races; Aslaran and Faelings are among the top choices for every or nearly every guild.)

PS: The only reason I am still a Faeling is because when I offered to pay more for a special customization to the Faeling hat, to have it be a Shadowlord Faeling hat, I was told 'no'.

C'mon, take my credits, darn you!

The biggest exaggeration in the thread is pretending a race that has flight, a level 3 sip bonus, a level 2 balance bonus, and no maluses needs to have a disadvantage reduced.

If faelings actually had a disadvantage to speak of, then sure. But that low con score doesn't mean much, especially to a surged SL faeling, in light of the advantage gained by the sip bonus and, more than likely, nightkiss aura.

I'm not adverse to their strength going up in a strictly objective context, but I am adverse to a spec race that is even very popular unspecced getting yet another feather in its hat, with no drawbacks what so ever.

If we're going to do that, then we may as well just add a mini-stat pack in that lets any race give up a few points of X for a balance bonus or EQ bonus. Because, so long as speed knights are what they are? Faelings don't need the strength without a balancing element.

Rainydays:

I'm not adverse to their strength going up in a strictly objective context, but I am adverse to a spec race that is even very popular unspecced getting yet another feather in its hat, with no drawbacks what so ever.

... so you are saying that a race, which is popular unspecced (that is, non-warrior except in the Templar guild), means that we shouldn't look at the Warrior specialization balance?

That 1 strength point doesn't affect anyone but Shadowlords; it didn't come out of the base racial stats, it was removed from the specialization bonus.

If you're talking about its popularity as Shadowlord in specific, I'm not seeing it. I'm pretty much it and I'd have ditched the race if I could get a Shadow Faeling hat. :P Otherwise, I don't get your comparison at all.

Agreed. If we need to discuss nerfing faelings, it should be to the base race, not a spec therein.

I don't see any of the advantages I listed listed not being true for Shadowlords.

How about, SL +1 strength, SL -1 sip bonus? That would appease me nicely. They'd still have a level 2 sip, which is far better than most (certainly dracs and viscanti).

Also fools, the merian buffs I suggested, as I said in the post, which you managed to cut out of your CP, were an exaggeration to make a point- that some of the last minute requests are trumping some of those that were laid down and put in place!

Collected Suggestions:

Dracnari and Viscanti:
-1 Sip Malus

Faelings:
-1 Sip Bonus
+1 STR for Shadowlords

Aslaran:
+1 Herb Malus

Taurian:
+1 Balance Bonus while Enraged
Extend Enrage time.

So much for this being about balancing the bottom races only...

Aslaran need +1 to herb malus when they already have the +2 fire malus? Talk about left field.

EDIT: The problem isn't with aslaran being too good, the problem is with a balancing philosophy that dictates speed > all.

Aslaran need +1 to herb malus when they already have the +2 fire malus? Talk about left field.

EDIT: The problem isn't with aslaran being too good, the problem is with a balancing philosophy that dictates speed > all.

And what do you suggest then? Allowing Aslarans to continue to be one of the best choices for nearly every guild? Certainly Aslarans should give up something as well, or would this upset all of the warriors (and how many warriors aren't Aslaran) too much?

Whoa hey there, I just said we can talk about it. To pass the time a bit and brainstorm for other solid ideas.

I haven't actually been convinced to add anything new one way or another.

Rainydays:

I don't see any of the advantages I listed listed not being true for Shadowlords.

How about, SL +1 strength, SL -1 sip bonus? That would appease me nicely. They'd still have a level 2 sip, which is far better than most (certainly dracs and viscanti).

Excepting that those things you've listed, aside from the sip bonus, aren't the real draws to the race; there are a lot of ways to get Flight (including directly in one of the two skillsets that makes a Faeling a Shadow Lord), and the balance bonus is equaled by the Aslaran race.

The decent int and high charisma are floored for a Shadowlord, so those draws go away, and they are what really make the race popular (especially when added to the sip bonus).

If the choice is between reducing the sip bonus by a level for Shadowlord only, and the extra strength point, I'd take the strength point hands down. I'm not convinced that it really needs to come down to that decision since the race already existed just fine in its previous state, with its previous strength, at 1% faster balance time than the race is now... but whatever.

I'd obviously rather that the race just be returned to what it was though. :P

Remove a point of dex for shadowlords and move it to str. Strength has more of an impact anyways, afaik.

Bard Specs for Halli and Gaudi!

Mystic Dracnari -

- 4 str + 2 cha + 2 dex

Iridescent Lucidian?

+2 cha

Windsinger Trill?

They seem decent as normal trill....

- 2 str + 2 dex

I dont know out of options but... I influencing as a drac minstrel is hard....

Xenthos:

Excepting that those things you've listed, aside from the sip bonus, aren't the real draws to the race; there are a lot of ways to get Flight (including directly in one of the two skillsets that makes a Faeling a Shadow Lord), and the balance bonus is equaled by the Aslaran race.

I know you have six ways to fly, and most of Glom is airborne by one means or another. But for the rest of the basin, bar hallifax and a few guilds, the most accessible means of flight is using beastmastery, which comes with its own drawbacks.

The decent int and high charisma are floored for a Shadowlord, so those draws go away, and they are what really make the race popular (especially when added to the sip bonus).

If the choice is between reducing the sip bonus by a level for Shadowlord only, and the extra strength point, I'd take the strength point hands down. I'm not convinced that it really needs to come down to that decision since the race already existed just fine in its previous state, with its previous strength, at 1% faster balance time than the race is now... but whatever.

I'd obviously rather that the race just be returned to what it was though. :P

I've much fewer qualms with base faeling, because their hp is far more likely to remain pretty low. I have no interest in seeing the other faelings take that hit. I mean, caster/bard spec faelings have equal to or greater than con than their merian equivalents, without the maluses, and with a level 3 sip, but I'm willing to chalk that up to the merian eq bonus.

foolofsound:

And what do you suggest then? Allowing Aslarans to continue to be one of the best choices for nearly every guild? Certainly Aslarans should give up something as well, or would this upset all of the warriors (and how many warriors aren't Aslaran) too much?

Is that because it's broke or OP? Not necessarily, and again, see my point about this being a problem with speed > all.

Only suggestion/comment I'd have: please leave regular faelings alone, survivability is hard enough as it is.

I'm against nerfing aslaran and other races that are frequently considered top-tier. Buff the bottom races first and then if you guys still think that the top races are OP, you can start waving around the nerf hammer. Stop doing too many things at once. :/ One step at a time please. Focus on the bottom races.

And I don't see anything wrong with adding back +1 strength to Shadowlord faelings considering the recent changes to to dexterity comin' up. Just... don't add anything more than that for now, because I, in my opinion, feel it's way too much ask for anything more for a race with no malus for the perks they already have. Which goes back to my previous statement: buff the bottom races first and then we can consider any major changes that needs to be done for the top ones.

Merian could really use either +1 to con or a sip bonus.

To offset having Level 2 weakness to both Fire and Electrical? Yeah... asking for +1 con would be fair. Though a sip bonus would also make sense lore-wise... considering Merians have an affinity for water and fluids and such. If people think a + 1 sip bonus is too much, then + 1 con should hopefully help a teensy bit with the level 2 weakness to fire/electrical.