My first impression of Cloudcoils was that it was a better version of Thornlash, particularly that it's the same command to add coils as it is to kill, instead of being able to waste EQ on a failed attempt to thornlash somebody at 4 lashes because it's shrouded writhing makes keeping track of lashes difficult.

But as I understand it Cloudcoil kills don't really happen either. Suppose Cloudcoils are probably as difficult to stack as lashes.

Well yes, I'm not asking for a clone skill, just a similar general idea for passive thornlashes.

Lehki:

But as I understand it Cloudcoil kills don't really happen either. Suppose Cloudcoils are probably as difficult to stack as lashes.

They're really not.

I am interested in the allergy idea, but I kind of want someone to fully flesh out an idea and pitch it, then it would be easier to decide from there.

Something in the format of the choke replacement idea makes things easier to theorycraft. But that's just me.

Mechanically, I suppose the changes would be... (if BT have allergy and HS have wrath/ire)

SeedCloud/Awakening(druidry):

• 5p, Aura
  
• has a X% chance to knock enemies off a balance based on "allergy/wrath"
  
• Gives X seconds of "allergy/wrath" every time an enemy attempts to cure
  
• Halts "allergy/wrath" timer
  

Allergy/Wrath:

• stacks in increments of time up to X.
  
• does nothing on its own
  
• perhaps increments to show approximate time until cured? (Slightly/Moderately/Severely/Deathly Alergic. Annoyance/Anger/Wrath/Ire)
  

Pollen/Spores: (Demesne Effect, Protection)

• increases an existing allergy/wrath timer.
  

Swarm/Storm: (Demesne Effect, No Protection)

• increases an existing allergy/wrath timer.
  
• gives an affliction in addition to normal effect.
  

Spiders/Squirrels?: (Guild Unique Demesne Effect, No Protection)

• increases an existing allergy/wrath timer.
  
• gives an affliction in addition to normal effect.
  

Shock/???:

• 10p, targetted
  
• Prone for 15 seconds
  
• Asphyxiation for 15 seconds
  
• If allergy level too low, only increases timer.
  

This is my understanding of what Estarra suggested.

The way I am thinking about it is that the longer you fight a druid in their demesne the worse things get for you. Perhaps, the afflictions on abilities like swarm or spiders don't kick in until certain levels, so unlike timewarp or insanity where stacking increases the effect, stacking this enhances other abilities that the druid has access to.

The immediate issue I see with this is that it encourages and rewards people for leaving a druids demesne, even just getting out of the same room. So we would need to take prevention of such into consideration.

Everything can't be done at once. The Choke thread was getting attention, and Druids certainly aren't SDs without Choke. Patience!

I wake up and I see shuyins post, I respond.

I'll be honest, the amount of attention that the choke thread has received in comparison to the almost complete lack of attention this one is receiving is actually getting rather annoying especially given it was the same in the first round. It seems that it is not that people are not talking about druids because they're discussing choke right now, it's because people are just not talking about druids.

Personally I think the Shadow Manipulation is ready for submitting since its slowed alot.

I really like the idea of the allergies from druids, though not sure about the whole balance stacking thing. Aka Illuminati. Though would this be in replacement of sap or in conjunction with sap, because if we're talking about knocking people off balance/stunning for long periods of time whilst they are sapped, seems rather strong to me.

RE: Choke - choke being as...popular as it is goes both ways. It gets a lot of interest due to its notoriety, and for good and bad, people want to know what's gonna replace it.

I'd like to say it's more or less done too unless some other huge concern comes in.

What this thread needs is someone to take the reigns and try to pitch their own idea and flesh it out. That's how you can get it done quickly.

@Asmodea: I don't think that the affliction should actually do anything itself, I think it should unlock secondary effects of other abilities that the druid possesses or empower them.

Choke wasn't the only feedback thread more popular than Druids. In fact, all of them were! :P

Anyway, in response to Saran's post...

I don't feel too good about the building of allergies coming from entirely passive sources that hit all enemies while the only cure is to run away or remove the druid. That's a bit over the top. I think it would be better if it either had a cure, or the seed cloud had to be focused on one target.

What kind of afflictions were you thinking for swarm? The "itchiness" that Estarra mentioned? I'm guessing that's like... scabies basically? So more passive balance loss? What other kind of afflicts would it be giving.

For Shock, 15 seconds of prone (I'm guessing you mean like... shock gives a 15sec affliction that counts as prone?) would be pretty great if we already the target sapped, otherwise that doesn't do :censor: for the druid except give 15 seconds of not being hit by them. Though in groups it certainly would be great for our monk and warrior allies.

What do you mean by 15 seconds of Asphyxiation. Asphyxiation is a dmg type. You mean taking asphyxiation dmg over the course of 15 seconds? For the power cost and how much time it would take to probably build your target up to maximum allergy level, it should probably just be an instant kill, aside from that entirely passive incurable build up to it.

In general I'm not really feeling a good focus with this allergy idea yet. I guess if the idea was to be somewhat frustrating to all enemies then it's pretty good, but otherwise really it seems kind of weak. It certainly doesn't look like it would helps towards any of a druid's kill methods, except I guess pure damage kills.

I suppose I'll try to submit my own idea, or some other variation on the allergy idea. Though I'm still waiting for that post Enyalida promised. D:

Lehki:

Choke wasn't the only feedback thread more popular than Druids. In fact, all of them were! :P

Anyway, in response to Saran's post...

I don't feel too good about the building of allergies coming from entirely passive sources that hit all enemies while the only cure is to run away or remove the druid. That's a bit over the top. I think it would be better if it either had a cure, or the seed cloud had to be focused on one target.

That was straight from Estarras post.

What I would assume is that the passive generation is less than ten seconds total, easiest example is with 5 seconds per full demesne hit 40 seconds of affliction would take 60 seconds to cure. So if you stand one room away your curing is slower because you keep getting hit. If you stand further away your curing is at normal speed. Greater than ten seconds means you would still be gaining the affliction.

What kind of afflictions were you thinking for swarm? The "itchiness" that Estarra mentioned? I'm guessing that's like... scabies basically? So more passive balance loss? What other kind of afflicts would it be giving.

I avoided them because I'm honestly not sure. Itching or scabies is thematically appropriate.

For Shock, 15 seconds of prone (I'm guessing you mean like... shock gives a 15sec affliction that counts as prone?) would be pretty great if we already the target sapped, otherwise that doesn't do :censor: for the druid except give 15 seconds of not being hit by them. Though in groups it certainly would be great for our monk and warrior allies.


What do you mean by 15 seconds of Asphyxiation. Asphyxiation is a dmg type. You mean taking asphyxiation dmg over the course of 15 seconds? For the power cost and how much time it would take to probably build your target up to maximum allergy level, it should probably just be an instant kill, aside from that entirely passive incurable build up to it.

Again straight from Estarra. For a shaman it could be interesting if you are already set up but given that it is entirely passive an insta kill is entirely out of the question. I assume the asphyx is a DoT for the duration.

In general I'm not really feeling a good focus with this allergy idea yet. I guess if the idea was to be somewhat frustrating to all enemies then it's pretty good, but otherwise really it seems kind of weak. It certainly doesn't look like it would helps towards any of a druid's kill methods, except I guess pure damage kills.

I like the concept and the idea of enhancing other abilities. What I think could help is more of an interplay between skills and in development more of a focus on what we actually need to achieve the end goals.

Quick thoughts:

- Limit effects that would give it to 1. At max 2. Lets face it you wont have protection if you are target and this should not steamroll groups.
- Loses cure balance or normal balance? Uncurable balance loss is a drastically bad idea (badluck being the single worst skill in Lusty atm).
- I do not see this killing someone really but hey that is just me. Feel free to tweak.

Are we just going by Estarra's idea here, or is anyone actually writing something up?

I mean, I guess I can churn something out too, but honestly, the choke thread tired me out when it comes to brainstorming.

If Estarra's example idea is going to replace Sap as is? I'd rather keep things as they are now.

As I see it, Druids really need a method of slowing down an enemy's curing for all of their kill moves, but then also for keeping the enemy from just running away as soon as she target gets into danger. Sap technically works for both of those, except then we have to spend almost all effort on just perpetuating Sap instead of working on kill conditions. Those kill conditions being, low mana(Swoop/EternalSleep) low health(Gore/Death) stacking afflictions(Thornrend/DeathProphesy).


Or if we're replacing Thornrend and just giving Druid's a new insta, I GUESS if Shock was some instant kill instead of... whatever it is. And the passive balance loss against all enemies cured by running away was replaced with something more reasonable like, just passive afflictions, or allergic reactions to eating herbs that causes damage I could live with that, so whatever.

I've been trying to come up with new ideas I could be pitching, but honestly I LIKE Sap and Thornrend, I just wished they worked better. Nobody seemed to like anything I said on Thornrend, and I'm kind of tired of worrying about this in general, so just whatever.

The example needn't necessarily mean it would replace sap unless people thought it would be OP.

It would be, with the current sap. Part of the problem with sap as it stands is that it very easily is unworkable/UP (like currently in any group that knows how to buy a cleanse enchant or has novices tasked to doing this) but buffs to it could easily make it way OP. That dosn't really mean it's 'balanced' though, it just means that there is no leeway between silly and SILLY, you've got to hit the exact sweetspot strategy and never budge from that strategy, hoping that no one's curing will improve, or you're down a hole.

As an envoy, it's like tiptoeing around a landmine, we can't buff anything in druidry because it'd make Sap hilariously strong, and all the rest of our skillsets are either shared or have their own problems.

A hilariously strong Druid... hm, that's something I'd like to see, for the sake of experiment.

Go back in time, druids (apparently) used to be lulzy. First, assume you're coding your system completely on an old graphing calculator... Second, multiple the base demesne size by 30.... Fourth, remove protection scroll, expand effects across demesne...Third, add in a summon from any place in any forest terrain to your room (with the help of a wiccan)... and so on.

My point is that allowing these things in sap just might not be as insane as some combinations that already possible in the game.