No on the flight stuff. There are already attempts to nerf harmony wind mantra, and that only moves one room and has the usual harmony restrictions! It would be quite vexing for harmony users to eat that nerf, and then watch Night get what they had, yet even better at the same time.

Well, if Shamanism Sky has no real effect, I don't see why it's so important for it to hit 100% under Brumetower. There are many other power skills that are silly to use under certain conditions (unprepped Cruficy (8p), walled and distorted(??) scissorflip (5p), unhindered and deaf deathsong (3p)...toadcurse with more than 50% mana (8p)).

The main complaint against Brumetower was that it prevented elevation movement 100%. Hence, the proposed changes. People at least have a chance to move up/down under Brumetower with them.

As for Flight, I understand the apprehension with the tumble++ idea. I hate mantra wind, too :(. How about the teleport++ idea, though? Honestly, I just want an easier transport ability than Nature Flow, like Moonbeam :( Although if the teleport++ effect is deemed okay with the Lust requirement, I'd rather the active lust idea for Penumbra be okay'd, too.

I would still prefer Teleport++ with a shadowed room requirement, which is in fact easier than lust under most situations, though more power expensive.

Brumetower should be slower movement to all. This makes it no longer a druid stopper but still maintains use.

We do not need more forms of lust, especially active. Let me rephrase that, we do not need lust spam. Love potion was complained about, we do not need most everyone to have lust spam. Poor enemy list guilds (you get rid of brumetower and add an active druid screwer).

Flight currently escapes some things tumble won't as it is magic. I do not agree we need more tumble nao's. Yes distort stops it, that does not make it ok. The fast teleport was fine because it required lust.

Read the Choke (Consume) idea. Wiccans really only have pigwidgeon to stop running, and Shadowdancers more than Moondancers are more built to hold someone down. Hence, a Brumetower idea:

• slows down movement out of the room by 1s
  
• chance to fail forced elevation movement by 50% / 33% **
  
• chance to fail voluntary lateral movement by 50% / 33% ** (if someone fails to move, it takes away a 1s* balance)
  

Again, the complaint against Brumetower was that it was a 100% block to elevation movement. A Nightuser can only have 1 Brumetower at a time, and people had the option to force out the Nightuser from under a Brume. With these changes, it's still possible to force a Nightuser from under a Brumetower AND it's not a 100% block to elevation movement anymore.

** In comparison, Carcer takes away a 1s balance upon failure to move, and it looks like it tics 50% of the time (or maybe RNG just hates me).

The problem is that more then ever, this change would make it impossible to force someone out from under a brumetower (Which I still say is not really possible as it is now). You can beastkick and follow them, but it takes you 1 second to move into the next room, making it quite impossible.

Again, as I said earlier in the thread, the effect of this would be a 100% block to Druids, with extras thrown in. You've got a nifty uber-carcer, room gravity skill that you can't really be forced out of, that also blocks forced movement (unlike any other carcer/slowing ability), and still neuters druids. At least it's not ONLY neutering druids, but that's hardly a step up.

I advise making it a room gravity skill only, no other frills, possibly with less slowing on elevation movement then gravity provides, as the slowing of climb up/down will still murderize the crud out of druid offense.

EDIT: As you said, you already have pidgwidgeon on your target to give a chance for voluntary movement failure. You don't additionally need a 33-50% chance on top of that, imo. Especially if your offense becomes less about bunkering down in a room and totally stopping all exiting, a la choke. With the consume idea, you have a fairly large window of time to chase down the target, and merely be in the room to reset their timer.

I just want to also point out, there already is an ability to remove night users (and others thanks to the construct) from enemy lists. Its rather powerful for groups, gloomtide then run in and you avoid traps/preset hexes/etc. A lust ability isn't needed in addition to that. Pneumbra is honestly good enough just for the +charisma buff.

I also don't really think buffing night is at all necessary until its decided what sort of mechanic will replace choke.

Here's my idea for brumetower:

Brumetower ver. 2 - 3p* and 2* shadows, stops all physical movement (not elevation movement), drops when the Night user moves away (elevation or lateral movement), when shadows fade, or when the Night user dies. Cannot be used in a room with bonds dropped. Lasts 3* minutes.

Note: * = subject to change

------------------------------------------------

This suggestion addresses the problem of Brumetower vs.druids while at the same time affording the Night user a better way to keep someone from leaving the room.

Additional suggestions to make it drop can be added of course.

No, it doesn't. Druid's movements are all physical movement, so I'm not sure you can make a distinction. Still 100% stops druids+bonuses.

EDIT: And all physical movement? Or all physical forced movement?

I already said it won't affect elevation changes, isn't that all you need?

Sojiro:

I already said it won't affect elevation changes, isn't that all you need?

Except your idea is still catastrophically overpowered compared to Barrier, which is 10 power, locks you out of some offense, and can be ended through forced movement.

I don't think that's necessarily viable (from a code/logistics point of view. Will this require going in and editing the code for every possible vertical movement, possibly missing some?), is the thing. I'm okay with it stopping all physical forced movement, excepting anything that moves you up or down.

Again, I'm not sure where my idea says that you also can't move someone out of brumetower to get it to drop. In fact, I even explicitly stated so in the first version of my idea.

And once again, I said that if barrier costs 10p and lasts forever, then I feel it's fair the barriertower cost less power and last for x amount of time.

The only point that I can agree with is that using barrier loses you some offense, but I imagine something can be figured out besides 'no using bonds with this'

RE: coding viability - I imagine you can just use the barrier code, which already allows you to fly while barriered, and then make it accept being moved to trees via treelife/beast toss/climb/raise/anything that's tree movement.

I'm fine with the stop-forced-lateral-movement change. It disappears when the Nightuser leaves the room, so you can just...raise cudgel, and bam. Barriertower gone.

Yep, it's a lot less OP than you'd think.

I actually think things through before suggesting it, amazing as it sounds.

I would say 5 power would be necessary and there needs to be some way to move the SD in distort.

However, choke replacement first, changes to other Night skills later.

rika:

However, choke replacement first, changes to other Night skills later.

Hinted at this earlier, and its really worth repeating.

I agree, new choke first.

P.S. You can do elevation moves in distort, which will drop barriertower.

I don't see why it should drop it. Any good suggestion for the ability shouldn't drop on terrain (to the trees) movement. The thing with movement is not about being able to get them out to break the skill, it's about being able to move anyone in the room period, which is pretty vital to combat, imo.

Having it drop on elevation movement is the simplest solution that address the distort problem.

Really, if you want to give the Night user leeway, give a leeway of 3* seconds for the caster to return to the original room. If he makes it, it stays up. If he doesn't, then it fades