Sojiro:

Oh sweet jesus not again.

The chance of it kicking you out to astral is 5%. Five. Percent. 95 times out of 100, that will not happen at all.

You know what's more reliable if you want to kick someone out of a plane? Massdominating them all to enter archway/ship if they're camping there

For purposes of this however, a 5% chance to ban someone from a plane for an hour is pretty intense, though not as much so as dominate spam at the gate. Just make it so that being forced from a plane doesn't ban you. I really don't care about Reality kicking you to astral otherwise, nor the skill in general. It's got an appropriately high power cost for what it does.

Not that I really care, but if it's such a big bitch for some people, removing a 5% chance is a rather minor change to a skill. Or just have forced movement not ban you.

I'm all for a lockout period, but only for aggressive actions, moving through shouldn't lock you out unless you want to start something.

My only intent is to give actual numbers to this before the forum lynch mob gets its pitchforks under some silly impression (due to some...passionate posters) that reality will always kick you out to astral.

RE: the actual idea:

Really, I understand the intent, and while I don't overly care if the dharma idea goes in or not, I must really stress that the 'no-leaving-or-else-you're-locked-out' idea should really only tick if you do something aggressive first.

That's what I really want to insist on, it'll just cause more problems if you implement that specific change as is.

This system won't stop endless raids, will it? Or one side hoarding sufficient people to just staff/zap anyone who comes to defend and just never leave? I know we like saying that maybe this will help sate aggression and stop pointless raids, but let's not kid ourselves. I wouldn't mind more bonuses, but I think what will generally happen is now we'll have even more raiding than before: dharma raiding + normal pointless raiding.

Also, Faethorn and Astral dharma zones plz.

The lockout idea will, at the least encourage, raiders to be more diverse in their targets. Rather than continuing to hammer the same place.

The Dharma idea has a couple of sticking points for me, 1) It seems mostly like a grindy system and 2) Its likely to end with a few orgs reaping all the benefits (wasn't org momentum considered a big issue?).

If it is planning to go forward, how about instead of buffs, dharma can be used to unleash a horde of mobs onto -any- plane (allies or enemies). The NPCs wouldn't be aggressive unless attacked, but they would serve as a RPable "screw you guys, we just put our mobs on your plane", and maybe they would occasionally yell some propaganda for their org. If you summon them in your own org, they could serve as an extra set of influencing targets, maybe providing power for influencing them.

Also, if a Dharma system -is- going in, faethorn is a must location! Astral would be good too.

Though personally, I would rather just see the village revolt fix in before any other new systems!

Sojiro:

My only intent is to give actual numbers to this before the forum lynch mob gets its pitchforks under some silly impression (due to some...passionate posters) that reality will always kick you out to astral.

I don't care about numbers, 5% is infinitely more than 0%. The problem isn't that it's unlikely to happen, the problem is that it can happen. I'll put it terms with numbers too. If chance-to-astral > 0%, then that's too much.

I don't know about you, but I feel that the success rate of massdominate enter ship/archway is greater than reality's chance, so where are the pitchforks there?

Especially that this is coming from someone who argued that we should target every instance of a skill (re: forced movement like chainyank) instead of just one in particular.

I'm fine with forced movement out of the area not counting, by the way.

Especially that this is coming from someone who argued that we should target every instance of a skill (re: forced movement like chainyank) instead of just one in particular.

Ad hominem fallacy, but to address it regardless, I was very clear in what I was targetting with my argument there: single-target, adjacent room, forced movement skills. That carves out a very very specific set of skills. Mass-dominating requires that everyone be in a specific room to leave the area, whereas reality is portable. Big difference there.

What you're doing is lumping a skill and a strategy together and calling them the same thing. They're not.

I don't know about you, but I feel that the success rate of massdominate enter ship/archway is greater than reality's chance, so where are the pitchforks there?

In all honesty, it's a huge stretch to put these two scenarios in the same basket. I can tell you that your comparison is apples to oranges. The probabilities originate from two different things: with reality, it originates from within the skill. With dominate, from how and when people use it, which is outside the skill.

EDIT: Here's a key question you have to answer if you're going to put the two skills in the same set: What is the exact probability of massdomination to ship/archway? I can tell you reality's.

And I think that within a period of time, far more people will be flung to astral by reality than by being dominated off-plane, excluding people intentionally doing the latter to jack the numbers up.

Heh, if we're going to go this route, the more reliable solution is to actually force them to touch org/bub/cu-bix.

I was just using the archway one as an example for the most desperate of situations. If your intent is to just boot raiders out, all you have to do is not distort then force them to touch orgbix. Most, if not all combatants have their orgbix by now. Those who don't are easily picked off

Then you won't even need to have them stay at the archway.

There, I'm pretty positive it will be better than reality.

So I think that within that period of time, far more people will be flung to astral by force touch *bix than by being dominated enter whatever and reality.

I'm not sure where you can draw the line between calling one strategy and the other is just a skill. As far as I'm concerned, they're both skills.

If the astral flinging part of reality is as minor as Sojiro is trying to make it sound, surely no one will miss it. The fact you continue to argue against it going (especially if there is a hour cooldown before you can enter planes again introduced), suggests that it really does have an effect that you think is worth arguing over to keep.

RE: original topic, I have still yet to see any argument why this will be a healthy addition to all parts of the game.

And no, if you add more "meaningful" combat into the game, it doesn't mean people will be satisfied and stop with other raids. The Lusternian playerbase has no self restraint and more things for them to win isn't going to change it.

Actually, I'm arguing against it because just like Sahmiam, I'd rather address all skills that do a specific thing instead of just whichever one the forum population decides to whine about today. You already know the power of forum whining, so I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination that people have to argue back loudly in case some change gets shoehorned in because enough people complained about it.

I'm fine with forced movement out of the area not counting, by the way.

^I even posted that!

In fact, the last time reality was brought up, I even said the same thing. "Sure, delete reality, but please delete dingbat hamsters, convergence, land, and whatever else does its effects as well'

So yes, the fact that I keep arguing about it says this: I'd rather not touch reality if you guys aren't equally appalled that similar skills which do the same thing still exist.

The strength of reality here is pretty offtopic anyway. I just listed reality in my examples because it's definitely something that could kick out raiders/allied defenders.

That said:

-Convergence is targeted, high stanza and requires someone to be asleep.
-Hamsters only move the whacker.
-Land is comparable and actually stronger since it works off an enemy list.

Neither of those skills have a chance to throw anyone out of the plane though, so they're highly irrelevant to a planar blocking effect.

Malicia:

Psh! My rp dictates that we defend the inner sea whether Avechna likes it or not. I won't get into the reasons why it makes sense for Celest to keep the sea free of enemies that kill turtles while under anmesty. /slightlyofftopicsorry

This shouldn't be possible. If they kill turtles, they should be losing their amnesty.

No, you can't stop them until they've already killed one. So, they can run around threatening to kill things, and you totally can't stop them.

On Topic:

That is what I was looking for, its just another snowballing system. Winners win more and get more, losers are SOL. This will just turn into another "They are griefng us by stopping our dharma" system.

I have given my productive input assuming teeth have been latched on but mark my words in a few weeks people will be tired of constantly having something... wildnodes, revolts, aetherflares, Dharma, Domoths. I would rather see other mechanics be more meaningful.

Eventru:


This shouldn't be possible. If they kill turtles, they should be losing their amnesty.

The Sea Quests are imbalanced in favor of Celest right now, I thought dolphins OR turtles enemied, is it intended they both do? And if so can the other "loyal" denizens in SoD enemy to Ladantine that the quest needs?

What happens if you pooka someone to touch cubix?

Under the current plan, if they're a raider, they're done for the hour.

Cool.

I'm going Shadowdancer.

As the concern with reality is "valid" since forced commands are already tracked (so it can tell who forced hitting a denizen), make that count as forced movement and not start the lockout.

I agree, that's cool.

I'm just saying the change shouldn't be with reality itself.