I think... you're agreeing on the status of this idea, and I agree: It seems like a continuation of the current Raiding problems instead of fixing anything.

Maybe the raiding problems will go away if people always had something to do, instead of waiting around for days for for domoths/villages/wildnodes/flares. Just think!

Vadi:

Maybe the raiding problems will go away if people always had something to do, instead of waiting around for days for for domoths/villages/wildnodes/flares. Just think!

The WHY I like this idea, I would hope it gives raiding a productive outlet.

Vadi:

Maybe the raiding problems will go away if people always had something to do, instead of waiting around for days for for domoths/villages/wildnodes/flares. Just think!

While many current players won't remember, there used to be a lot of clearly laid out goals in raiding, and they served a greater purpose than now. Unfortunately, this didn't stop people from raiding with no purpose or plan other than to cause aggravation. If you think that having even more non-essential mechanics is going to encourage 'fair play', you're fooling yourself.

The truth is, Lusternia doesn't offer any reason to fight other than roleplay. For many people, that's enough, and the fact that it is (subjectively) fun is just a bonus. Lusternia was never designed with the correct mechanics to force and require raids with a goal (and I think that player objectives are far better than ones laid out by admins like a boardgame's rulebook - it adds personal attachment and meaning to the goals if players create them).

Power used to be the reason to raid (or so we thought. Looking back now, there really wasn't any point back then either), and now power has become so inflated no one thinks that raiding or defending is worth the personal loss to protect the potential power loss.

This system doesn't solve any of the problems that have evolved over the course of the game, and without major reconstruction, I can't really imagine how a system can be added that would. I think part of the problem is that the power lies in one corner for too long and too often. Even people who don't mind losing a fun fight don't want to put up with the snowballing effect of an organization on a roll, being forced to fight more and more battles that can't be won.

I think that, if anything is going to be done, you have to first focus on what's important to the daily life of Lusternia - find out what people would fight over to retain or control. Power is a fine example and it ties the entire game together in a way, but unless it suddenly becomes very rare - which might be a good thing - it needs to be something that's tangible. The downside is that, if people really want meaningful conflict, they have to take a good, hard look and decide if they're willing to lose that fight, perhaps often - but not always - and not have large access to what is meaningful, whatever it might be. That's the kicker. If you want meaning, it has to hurt when you lose it and feel awesome when you win it.

foolofsound:

No, I don't. I don't find that arguing with you has any point.

So far no one has given any answers to the concerns I laid out. You are reading into what I posted too deeply, it is simply clarification that people want the fifth invention of the wheel before they go through the time to do it.

Weakenings were considered too frequent, you want something as frequent or more. This will also buff only one side, it is not simply denying a side of something. I did not down your construct, I ALSO get to get another for myself!

That or the events will take so long people may just stop doing anyone elses....


Vadi: Having things to do constantly makes people feel the game is playing them. How many times did people used to complain about having to be doing things so often they didnt have time to themselves? It comes and goes with new mechanics like this one.

I would prefer that raiding were changed so that pointless raids would no longer be possible, at least easily. I don't feel that there is really a good solution for this however, and feel that outlets for aggression that allow for productive, rather than destructive conflict is good for the health of the game.

Going to agree with that as well. I suggest making this dharma business occur on prime, non-org territories. Deal with raiding problems directly, I don't think this would replace or fix raiding as it is.

EDIT: Again, unless it completely replaces raiding in some capacity.

Enyalida:
Going to agree with that as well. I suggest making this dharma business occur on prime, non-org territories. Deal with raiding problems directly, I don't think this would replace or fix raiding as it is. EDIT: Again, unless it completely replaces raiding in some capacity.

I assume Avenger will be inactive in the contested areas? And how about enemy territories; demigod phoenix on Prime is a pain of a thousand hells.

As someone with flaky latency and occasional connection issues, I hope that disconnecting won't prevent us from re-entering an engaged enemy plane... although it might prevent us from moving to safety to re-def.

Naia:

As someone with flaky latency and occasional connection issues, I hope that disconnecting won't prevent us from re-entering an engaged enemy plane... although it might prevent us from moving to safety to re-def.

I also thought this, although I'm not really involved in raiding yet, I lag out/disconnect at least once a day. I already find it super frustrating that Lusternia isn't like Achaea in that if you lag out and you're still connected, if you log back in you have all your defenses (since you didn't log out, your soul isn't frozen yadda yadda). It hurts worse in Lusternia because not only is it various elixirs and herbs, it's also power buffs. It especially hurt me as a Wicca with spiritbonding nature and drawdown. (Semi-derail, sorry.)

Honestly, since when has Glom camped a plane for hours at a time? I'd like to say never, we'll wait at most 20mins or so, then we'll leave. That's hardly endless camping that's trying to be portrayed here. I remember raids by Serenwilde on Glomdoring that easy lasted a few hours. There were days I would log in, go defend for a few hours, die a few dozen times and then log off. Hours we would sit staring at a raiding group from Mag 3 times our size. 20 mins is nothing. Stop blowing it out of proportion.

By "raiding group from Mag"... you mean "Raiding group from Celenwilde", yea? Because when Glom got hit hard.. it was definitely NOT by Magnagora, who were Glom's allies at the time :P

Revan:

By "raiding group from Mag"... you mean "Raiding group from Celenwilde", yea? Because when Glom got hit hard.. it was definitely NOT by Magnagora, who were Glom's allies at the time :P

No I most definitely mean Thoros, Narsrim, Romero, Esano and lots of Serenwilde.
Edit: Lots of other Mags to, but I just don't remember any more names.

Oh, so you mean after the Xion initiative? I wasn't there for that, but I do know that Glom got raped well before that by Celenwilde.. constantly

Revan:

Oh, so you mean during the Xion initiative? I wasn't there for that, but I do know that Glom got raped well before that by Celenwilde.. constantly

Yes, we are pretty much agreeing, the raids of today are really nothing compared to that. We don't camp planes for hours because it's been to us and we understand, we stay for a bit, fight a few times, and leave. I find it incredibly disingenuous to state otherwise.

No raid could ever compare to the cluster that was the Tainted Fae event during the first/second year. Nothing....

Try being on-call for raids for nearly 24 hours (yes, we actually called each other back then) to raid/defend for near 15 hours. The pain!

I don't remember anyone saying you raid for hours at a time. That said, the raid I watched from my manse a couple days ago definitely lasted longer than 20 minutes, with a lot of gloating being quoted over OOC clans. I'm not sure if I particularly care that old players who don't even play today used to overdo it back then. Sure, they were wrong for it, and I personally wouldn't even want to play in that environment. My point is, if raiding is so pointless, then why do they persist on a plane with very little resistance? They get some kind of fun and enjoyment out of it, and it just can't be the fun and enjoyment of a fair, even fight.

I agree with the people who already stated here that all this would do is give people a reason to raid, but it does nothing to stop pointless raiding (ie. hitting just because you can and they can't do anything about it). As I see it, the formulated group would just take this new mechanic and add it to their agenda. "Do Dharma initiative, then raid around again later".

Raids last "for hours at a time" when person x kills y, leaves for z amount of time, comes back to kill a, leaves, comes back to kill b... ad infinitum. That's the sort of raiding that people want to curb, I think. Although throughout the course of this thread it's been very nebulous. Some also want to stop raiding -period-.

Raiding is part of the game, and it's actually quite good and enjoyable if handled maturely. No new mechanic will 'fix' the ills of raiding though. Like Rika said, a lot of people don't have any restraint and as long as that's true, nothing you do will ever curb their actions. The only thing you can change is hope people learn with time.

I agree that things aren't as bad as people tend to make it to be in their frustration, things have been as bad for Seren lately, I think. However I gotta say the attitude of "it was worse for me years ago" doesn't make current complaints less relevant somehow. Narsrim's level of griefing definately shouldn't be the bar for what is too much, because he would go to the extremes.