Talan:

Okay, first of all, don't go throwing around words like "factual assessment" when your post is clearly tainted with your personal bias. I've only been a Hallifaxer for a day and even I can see that's crappy science. The tone of your post isn't objective. You're sneering and scoffing, which is what I responded to.

For the record you omit a key point in your appraisal, the fact that curios can have a far greater value being resold to individuals, rather than destroyed. That value only increases over time until the market is flooded again.

My snide point is and has been that you can't really put a valuation on the fun, luck, and overall experience of a crate - which is what you're buying. Just like you don't go to Vegas for the purpose of winning big (unless you are Krellan). This waa waa waa not good enough complaining that is by no means limited to you annoys me greatly. I see something that I think is really spiffy, and then I have to wonder what the admin think when they see posts like yours. If I were Estarra I'd be thinking, 'Well hell, if they don't like it, we won't do it anymore.' So you can go ahead and excuse me if I make sure that the other opinion is heard just as loudly. Waa waa, stop dissing on the Wheel.

My 100% complaint about the Wheel is the wording of the announcement.

I believe it is in quotations.

And the wording I greatly disliked was in italics.

I was making a comparison to previous spin values, and "slight tweak" is certainly not the wording that should have been used. I agree that spin values were ridiculous previously and needed to be 'tweaked'.

This wording would have perhaps been more accurate and prepared people better for the changes to the Wheel:

75-80% drop in payout for coins/curios might merit "severe tweak".
50%+ drop in payout for bound/free credits and dingbats might merit "moderate tweak".
10-40% drop in lessons payout is a "slight to moderate tweak".

"The Wheel has been moderately tweaked to address concerns with the Lusternian economy"...or something of that note.

Not everyone is paying gold for crates. Some people used real money. When you are selling a product dealing with actual, genuine currency, and you aren't completely forthright about what you are selling, people get justifiably upset. It isn't "wah wah wah don't like", it is more like, "I was expecting something different for this product that you were advertising."

I've dealt with Estarra before with making purchases and my most unique of beasts, and for the most part am happy about how the transactions have went. I found her to be understanding and prompt. Thus the disappointment.

I am, however, sorry if I was not completely clear in my initial post about the source of my concern.

When you're using real money, you are still getting about twice what you would have if you paid for credits directly.

Getting more than that was unintentional, it got fixed, and in general if you pay money you're still getting a very good deal.

You're getting way too worked up about this.

I've dealt with dishonest salesmen before and I have a very defensive persona. As long as I know what I'm expecting, then I can weather anything, but I really dislike being told one thing and having something else happen.

I've dealt with dishonest salesmen before and I have a very defensive persona. As long as I know what I'm expecting, then I can weather anything, but I really dislike being told one thing and having something else happen.

Except there's nothing dishonest here, you're getting (on average) a great deal.

Just not a bugged (to the point where it was insane and would likely have gotten her some Penalties From Above to let it keep going once it was known just how broken it was) deal.

Again, you're over-reacting.

Xenthos:

When you're using real money, you are still getting about twice what you would have if you paid for credits directly.

Getting more than that was unintentional, it got fixed, and in general if you pay money you're still getting a very good deal.

You're getting way too worked up about this.

This. All I hear from your complaints is: "I imagined that it would have been an even better deal; therefore, false advertising."

Even after the nerf and the bad things I heard people saying about it, I went ahead and spent 1,500,000 gold on a crate, because hey - it's just gold! For my frivolity, I got a little over 300cr worth of goodies, a 72-hour long TF with 72 hours of lucky criticals to match, and 180,000 gold back. I didn't even rub all my curios either, I got to send several away that I knew people were looking for.

I thought it was a pretty good way to spend the gold. My only regret is that I don't have another 1,500,000 gold handy just yet.

If not for the fact that I blew my 5m on curios and credits, I'd have bought three crates myself. Gold is plentiful in-game, after all, and there's little else to spend it on.

Ssaliss:

If not for the fact that I blew my 5m on curios and credits, I'd have bought three crates myself. Gold is plentiful in-game, after all, and there's little else to spend it on.

Spend for meeeeeee.

foolofsound:

This. All I hear from your complaints is: "I imagined that it would have been an even better deal; therefore, false advertising."

That is false advertising. It doesn't matter or not whether the deal is still good, if it's misrepresented, it's false advertising. To be fair here, I read that and thought "oh, crits/favors are being kept for a day." No where is there a mention of a reduction in turn out of good things, and I think Lilian hit the problem head on.

Anyone who bought a crate thinking they'd be getting pre-nerf drop rates after they read the announcement got screwed. They didn't understand what they were buying, and that was the fault of the seller. Whether or not the spins are still good has no bearing on the fact.

To illustrate this with an analogy that isn't a one to one correlation, it's like buying a product that's 50% off for $500. When your credit card comes due, you find out that the you were charged $700, which is only a 30% discount. It's still a good deal, but you thought you were getting it for x and got it for y instead, assuming the product was represented as x, it's false advertisement and worthy of complaints.

To some, the change in rates is the deciding factor for whether or not they buy a crate. Even if it's a good deal, for some, it might not be a good enough deal now compared to where it was before. It should have been made clear that the good things were being reduced.

Your analogy is not only not a one to one correlation, but totally inappropriate. Nowhere does IRE or Estarra advertise any sort of result guarantees from the wheel. Further, it is specifically advertised as a gamble. There is no false advertisement because in fact none was made that could be trespassed upon. The wheel nerf, while annoying to those who didn't buy crates immediately, is hardly complaint worthy; it is still a better deal for your money that virtually anything else, assuming average luck. Anyone who complains about the nerf is just bitter that they didn't buy theirs sooner.

I deleted what I was going to say...instead I will say this - why are we arguing? Some people aren't happy, some people are. If you are happy, that's super awesome. Doesn't really mean that the people who aren't happy - justified or not in your eyes - need to be slapped down for it, does it?

Lavinya:

I deleted what I was going to say...instead I will say this - why are we arguing? Some people aren't happy, some people are. If you are happy, that's super awesome. Doesn't really mean that the people who aren't happy - justified or not in your eyes - need to be slapped down for it, does it?

When the people who are unhappy are going out of their way to try and make others unhappy as well...

And really, how else do you take these accusations of 'false advertising' and 'corrupt salesmen' and the like?

The over-the-top rhetoric is receiving responses in kind. This should not be surprising!

It's not hard to ignore a thread you don't like. I don't see how people complaining is going out of their way to make other people unhappy. I just don't see why people aren't allowed to be unhappy about something without everyone piling on and telling them how they're the scum of the earth for thinking that way. Is it so hard to just roll your eyes and move on if you disagree? I'm pretty sure the topic was more aimed at getting admin attention than seeking for every player to prove them wrong or right. Why don't we let them shut down the accusations? It would sure solve all the back and forward arguing, because the people that aren't happy aren't suddenly going to be won over because another player tells them to get over it.

Lavinya:

It's not hard to ignore a thread you don't like. I don't see how people complaining is going out of their way to make other people unhappy. I just don't see why people aren't allowed to be unhappy about something without everyone piling on and telling them how they're the scum of the earth for thinking that way. Is it so hard to just roll your eyes and move on if you disagree? I'm pretty sure the topic was more aimed at getting admin attention than seeking for every player to prove them wrong or right. Why don't we let them shut down the accusations? It would sure solve all the back and forward arguing, because the people that aren't happy aren't suddenly going to be won over because another player tells them to get over it.

Why should we ignore the thread? What makes people complaining about something 'sacrosanct'? Why should their complaints not get responses, especially when they are going to absurd lengths and comparisons?

PS: The people unhappy aren't going to be won over if the Admin tell them 'that's the way it is'. You know why? The admin already have done so and they're still complaining.

Your not really purchasing a product(aside from curios you might keep) your purchasing access to a game of chance. Mileage will vary but unlike real life games of chance, where you almost always get nothing in return except the thrill of play, at least with the wheel you are guaranteed some sort of return! I'd say that's a pretty nice deal. People spend millions on the real lotto every day and never see a nickle come back to them. Hell, I read that you can receive penalties like maggoting from other IRE wheels. If your really only arguing the word Estarra used, I'm not sure what to do about that.

To the "People want to complain, let them, your the one that should stop complaining about complainers." argument. Everyone here is welcome to say what they want, and everyone is welcome to respond. No one is being stopped from doing anything, there are no victims here. Forums are about dialogue, dialogue is about having to listen to people who disagree with you.

Lilian is welcome to raise her concerns, and others are welcome to respond. Ahhhh...civilization!

Why should you ignore the thread? Obviously my point was entirely missed. Never mind, carry on attacking one another. Someone will eventually win, I'm sure.

Lavinya:

Why should you ignore the thread? Obviously my point was entirely missed. Never mind, carry on attacking one another. Someone will eventually win, I'm sure.

Your 'point' was to let people continue to complain to their heart's content until the Administration says something... ignoring the fact that the Administration has already weighed in.

It's also not hard to raise complaints and objections without things like "you're liars" and "you're used-car salesmen" and "you're false advertising" and all the other rubbish that got sown in this thread-- this conversation would be very different without all of that! It likely would be more along the lines of what you're asking for. I just see no reason not to respond to such statements.

Oh Xenthos... you keep forgetting, this is a COMPANY.. a BUSINESS. In the real world, companies get sued for doing things like this. I'm not sure where you get your pseudo-justification defense for this poorly made administrative move from, but it's pretty hilarious. But I digress, please continue :)

That's not precisely true for a bunch of semi-complicated legal reasons I only half understand.

Anyways, I think this thread has gone through its usefulness. I'm pretty disappointed that it was changed to add in more things that I (and many others) place no value in, that are temporary buffs, and somewhat bitter that I didn't do my spins before it got nerfed, but hey.

Revan:

In the real world, companies get sued for doing things like this.

lololololol. Please, try to find me a case where a company got sued for announcing a change, then making it.

I think you should go ahead and lock this thread; it is nothing but bitter people whining and ignoring reason.