@Xenthos

"You're not comparing it to, say, mana draining (not redundant), ego draining (nope), vessels (nope), thornlashing (nope), or even just straight damage stacking from those few guilds blessed with high output."

Enyalida:

Outside of brute force vitals damage. (And yes, I do think this is a problem, and many outlier damage dealers probably should be looked at and reduced, I've always felt that way.)

(Well, bursts. Bursts are silly. Other things have more than one cure, or are costly/hard to pull off)

"Further, you won't really get warriors stacking with 'different conflicting strategies' all that easily... since each body part has its own wounding levels, warriors need to co-ordinate with each other in group combat or there is no synergy at all... so I'm not entirely sure what you mean there."

Enyalida:


Unlike most afflictions, wounds only have a single balance they cure on (with a few exceptions).

"There's no reason to reduce warrior synergy if you're not going to address every other guilds' synergy. It's non-productive, it doesn't help warriors at all. It's already a complicated class, and throwing even more hoops and whistles in when more than one warrior dares to be involved in a group fight is just not going to help.
Please lay off the synergy angle, because that end of it is just no good (I would even go into the realm of 'patently unfair') unless you are going to do it for everyone."

Yeah... I do. This is why I propose nerfs for things like high damage, and am against buffing (my own) skills like sap, claw, even thornlash. And anyways.. "Nah, let's not be fair here because were unfair elsewhere. We don't really have to start anywhere! And I don't really want to reap the benefit of getting a first stab at being fair and having the rights to break new ground without regard for precedent." Fantastic.

I'm done on the subject. I literally replied to everything you said with (may I say) a perfect rejoinder before you even posted!

---------------------------------------------------------

@Nydekion's second part. I don't think that issue is necessarily with room based skills. I find that when I walk into a gank room, it's not to room effects or even passives, it's to damage or active stacking. I think you've got the right idea with the entire 'long term' combat over 'short term combat' problem though. It's a sad fact that burst combat is king in Lusternia. Classes that originally look to have been attrition/long term classes really got the short end of the stick. Upgrading those classes to burst classes and removing their ability to inflict lingering conditions could really help em out.


@Everyone Admins don't recognize that some types are better than others, period. We've brought it up loads.

Enyalida:

I'm done on the subject. I literally replied to everything you said with (may I say) a perfect rejoinder before you even posted!

Then we'll just have to disagree; I have not seen any compelling reason for your assertions / desires on this subject.

As to the damage type statement: I really wish that was not the case, because some (Divinus) are clearly better than others.

Xenthos:

Someday they'll do something about the huge disparity between Divinus-being-amazingly-good-everywhere and all the other damage types.

Maybe. :(

I think it's been explicitly stated that they have no intention of changing this, so I'm inclined to agree with Silvanus. Unlikely.

Nydekion:

Oh and as far as Icewynd goes, just make all the demons aggressive and the area open pk. That would mirror astral well sans insanity, exactly where it should be.

Surely you do not actually think it's a good idea to have players able to spawn 128 roaming, aggressive ice devils at will? Better to delete them. Don't delete them though. Even though they are not weak to my particular damage types, I still enjoy killing one of them now and then. Objections to this read to me as "Please ruin this activity I don't participate in for those who do," sorry.

Well, attrition-style combat is a style that many players disliked so it's understandable that it fell from favor. (ie. origami and the many ways to restore willpower/endurance instantly now). In fact, the only viable attrition combat these days is sleep/hunger/power starvation.

I don't so much have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is the power creep that's been going on over time to boost passive abilities and room-based skills to the point where group combat doesn't really require much effort or thought. So basically once you fortify a position, it ends up taking a herculean effort to overrun it. In addition to this, it makes demesnes and bard songs inordinately more necessary than other class abilities when it should really be a more even contribution.

Well, I bash larvae and think they're too good too, for what it's worth.

While I don't necessarily approve making icewynd avenger free (totally fine with that), I also don't know what a good change would be.

Sojiro:

Well, I bash larvae and think they're too good too, for what it's worth.

While I don't necessarily approve making icewynd avenger free (totally fine with that), I also don't know what a good change would be.

You also have damage types that are pretty sweet against them.

They're not really so great if you're going at them with, say, cutting (I created hammers just for them).

Talan:

Surely you do not actually think it's a good idea to have players able to spawn 128 roaming, aggressive ice devils at will? Better to delete them. Don't delete them though. Even though they are not weak to my particular damage types, I still enjoy killing one of them now and then. Objections to this read to me as "Please ruin this activity I don't participate in for those who do," sorry.

Eh? How is this any different from flooding a sphere with beefy astral creatures? I stand to gain as much as the next fellow from bashing ice creatures, they're truly easy pickings. I mean come on: impressive experience gain, gold drops, Avenger protected, outdoors, secluded area, and minimal aggros. Might as well just add that experience via IV drip.

Nydekion:

Might as well just add that experience via IV drip.

Do you mean aetherbashing?

Xenthos:

Do you mean aetherbashing?

Yeah, pretty much.

As much as I'll hate myself for suggesting it, Icewynd bashing would not be the xp tap it currently is if eyebanes moved.

(I already hate myself)

Sounds like a bug.

Some people like bashing just for the sake of bashing and aren't really involved in combat. I don't see an issue with an area that caters to that without the constant risk of getting jumped (which some people do anyways there).

I don't bash there myself, so whatever. Adjust xp if its too much. But I think high level bashers (non-fighters) should have -a- place they can go without constantly getting harassed by folks trying to jump them.

My two sovereigns, for what its worth:


Revolts. Yes, make them last longer than 3 minutes. Feelings shouldn't be an auto-win.

Avoiding Warrior topic except to say I don't necessarily agree they need nerfs more than other classes that can stack together in groups.

Yes to removing bubblixes on flares/domoths.

Didn't do much weakenings, no comment.

Yes, disable shrines on wildnodes (and everywhere).

I liked the agressive ice devils that were around in the Astral node freezing event. That was fun.

No comment on monks

Neutral on mass buff deleting.

Less discretionaries, please.

At least delete p5. >_>

Nerf Trip/Burst/Throatlock spam. That is too easy. Other less used strategies should still be possible, imo.

Neutral on karma.

Re:Icewynd, I recently got destruction and I can safely say that the time to bash a larva entirely by myself using destruction vs shadowchord/minorsecond (I haven't figured out which of the two is better), results in about 30-45mins less time to bash with destruction. I bashed a larva with Tacita and she got like 20 corpses of the 250some that you end up with. It's pretty OP, and I love it.

I was nodding my head and agreeing with the points you raised till you got to the delete bards part :< We need a place for all us artsy fartsy types! Though I have to admit I enjoy more how bards were done in Imperian, it felt a lot more exciting and less passive there, but that is besides the point.

And I like Icewynd, it's at just the right difficulty for us squishies :>

EDIT: Wrote a reply, sent it, and then decided that the argument/thread really isn't worth my time.

Why are the 5 sedans stacked on top of each other instead of traveling in convoy? That would seem the more apt comparison; and if the five sedans have a higher speed / better gas consumption, that might indeed lead one to pick that instead.

Further, combat in Lusternia != life insurance IRL (where they generally want to cut down as many things as possible in order to avoid payout-- especially not wanting to give a person incentive to off themselves so their family gets the money).

In a Lusternian context, the insurance example just doesn't apply; in both cases, it's one group trying to kill another person in the other group. You don't get style points or mechanical kudos for method, you just want to bring down the other guy asap. Whether it's wounds or one of the plethora of other methods to achieve a fast insta... they all get to the same place, and they're just as stackable.

Xenthos's post is very amusing with Sahmiam's post gone :lol:

Agree with all the points made in the original post, with the possible exemption of deleting bards, because they're interesting guilds.

One thing I'd always love to see about lusternia is to make it -simpler-, primarily with the dozens of buffs from various sources that you need to take advantage of all of to remain competitive. Its just tedious. Stop adding complexity, and start simplifying and improving existing features if you want to see more of my money. Doing this makes it easier for a casual player to participate without basically dashing into the meat grinder when it comes to combat, and makes the game easier to pick up for new players. Adding more complexity brings more money from existing players at the expense of chasing away new players and their future money.

I'd also like to see demigod really hard to get again, and worth getting again, but clearly that (aether)ship is long gone :P

The fact that you have to have so many credits to be a good knight is ridiculous, but will never be addressed, because people are willing to shell out the cash for some reason.

Do something about enemy territory death experience loss if nothing has been done in the 7-8 months since I last paid attention to the forums. It felt a little silly to spend so much time bashing the same old stuff, or mostly idling on an aethership for the 2-3 times I did that, just to lose all that 'work' in a Nil raid that didn't quite go as expected. The work-to-fun ratio isn't really where I'd like it to be in that situation :P

Malicia:

If I were Divine for a day...

Delete bards. Hee

There is just no love in our relationship anymore is there Malicat. :(

Ice larvae don't need to become more difficult, but if people want them to be rarer, I think that's fine. It's still very dangerous for most people to weave through winds and mounds, especially if flying is prevented by hurricane force winds (which it often is.)

If they die too fast, then maybe they just should not have any damage maluses and only have resistances.

Reduce the number of total larvae available at once, increase the spawn time, or both. People will still scour Iceburn for lesser payout.