Ushaara:


Whatever about Hallifax being opportunistic, the 'no support for this idea until independence' is false. Same idea was brought up during last discussion on domoths while we were still part of alliance and was supported then.

Anyhoo back to my old gripe, if domoths are revisited, I hope that orgs not currently holding a domoth will have a way to be proactive about changing domoth status, rather than always having to react/steal. Personal preference is for ascendants of orgs not currently holding a domoth being able to initiate a challenge, maybe including weakening of each domoth concept so only particular domoths can be challenged. Attach power cost to org for initiating the challenge.

'A crashing resounds throughout the firmanent as Shedrin, channelling the energies of the Matrix, attempts to absolve the Domoth of Knowledge.' etc.

I don't feel like that will improve anything other than people challenging when no one is around to oppose them, as is the current strategy

It allows non-holders to challenge when it suits them, giving all sides that same advantage, if I've understood the idea correctly.

No problem with that idea if it includes weakening windows only

And forgot to say, intended to only allow absolving downward, not like a steal that takes control if successful. Just something proactive that orgs otherwise locked out can do to change the setup.

Not a fan of that, absolving ought to be toned down, not buffed - even if its for domoth-less orgs.

Well that's why I thought making only for orgs without a domoth would be limiting factor. Once you gain a domoth, that avenue of absolving is cut off and you're into regular absolve/defence.

Edit: Reason I'm a maybe on weakening window is that I think if the cost to org is sufficiently high, I think it would deter people gaming it while making it on par with the current absolve at time convenient to initiating org. What's too much/little cost is another question though.

And since I've now had bit of time to read thread properly, also want to use this to highlight why I think something is needed to allow non-holding org/alliances to challenge the setup.

Malicia:

Edit: Also, domoths were meant to be heavily contested over. Why do you feel that once a domoth is won, it should never come under threat until expiration? How would that differ from aetherbubbles or villages acquired? You get absolved, you get your people together and you try to upgrade. You have your ascendants hold so they can absolve back. It is supposed to be a tug of war. If you don't find that fun, fine. Don't raise ascendants then.

As I see it, current setup allows an alliance to gain a stranglehold that is very difficult/exhausting for enemy org/alliance to break. As things are currently, there is no threat (minor threat if upgrade attempted at silly time) until expiration for the Equinox alliance since everything about current setup is initiated on one side of the alliance split's terms. I have posted before on how I think this creates a bias in how draining/frustrating domoth participation becomes.

I think having something like what I proposed would bring it closer to being the heavily contested and dynamic conflict outlet people want, while making it a lot more equitable for both sides. In my head I'm seeing non-holding allied orgs initiating absolves to prevent the insta-absolve problem their allies face on a successful steal, with a metastable equilibrium where every org has at least one domoth they can feel good about holding.

(Yes, yes, I'm an idealist, but would like to think there's an achievable balance point where 'everybody wins')

Don't alliances have an impact on everything? Villages, aetherflares, wildnodes, seal challenges: allies help each other, period.

Yep, and it sucks. :D

You guys should re-ally. Celest likes its allies. Not our fault you didn't like yours!

Ushaara:

..everything about current setup is initiated on one side of the alliance split's terms.

That's my complaint about domoths more than anything else, not complaining that an alliance has managed to secure them all. But the fact that even if Ironhart was still around, there's nothing we could do to change status in a manner that isn't reactive.

Malicia:

You guys should re-ally. Celest likes its allies. Not our fault you didn't like yours!

It's not that we didn't like them, it's that we were sick of the game being two sided. If you want to stay in your big alliance, that's fine. We opted for something more dynamic. Allied or not, the fact remains that there's nothing we can do on our terms in relation to domoths. As Ushaara has been pointing out, those who don't have domoths can only react when the ones who do decide to upgrade/absolve.

Sick of the game being two-sided yet were happy to drive conflict into a win/win (one-sided) situation. I am failing to see any logic.

Current: "Oh they're absolving and have more people? Why do we even bother?"

If there was way to challenge setup: "Oh they're absolving and have more people? Doesn't matter, we can get it back later!"

Orgs usually have to put in huge effort to steal a domoth, when that effort is overturned near immediately after, with no way of working to get it back, this is what I think leads to the first example.

If you think this somehow creates a 'one-sided' situation, I think you have misunderstood me.

Step 1) Upgrade first before the opposing domoth.
2) Make sure Ascendant holds domoth for bonus (even better if Sealed).
3) Absolve first before the opposing domoth.
4) Make friends and allies to help you out.
5) Do not treat friends and allies as commodities,
6) ???
7) Profit!

This is pretty much the same thing OP Equinox + Gaudiguch does when you guys manage to steal a domoth.

I'm still curious how many domoths have actually been contested in the last week or two.

1) Steal an Equinox domoth
2) Oops, can't absolve, opposing held by ascendant, ours not high enough level.
3A) Dormancy ends, risky upgrade needed if want to stave off later absolve.
3B) Dormancy ends, insta absolved.
4) ???
5) Can you at least see how difficult it is to break stranglehold yet and where the bias is?

Anyhow, I'm going to step out of this. My idea is there for people to see. You'll either agree or you won't.

Turnus:

I'm still curious how many domoths have actually been contested in the last week or two.

1, half an hour ago. It's only Tuesday, too.

Ushaara:

Current: "Oh they're absolving and have more people? Why do we even bother?"

If there was way to challenge setup: "Oh they're absolving and have more people? Doesn't matter, we can get it back later!"

Orgs usually have to put in huge effort to steal a domoth, when that effort is overturned near immediately after, with no way of working to get it back, this is what I think leads to the first example.

If you think this somehow creates a 'one-sided' situation, I think you have misunderstood me.

At the very least you should still be able to capture a domoth per game year. With an ally capturing the other. The mechanic of reseting domoths has been introduced specifically to address that problem.

It being tuesday or friday doesn't really have a bearing on how many over the past 2 weeks :D Good to know there was finally a fight in this dynamic system though.

Ushaara's last post summed up why domothing sucks, but I think he's wrong on the issue being initiative, its that absolve needs tweaking.