Shamarah:

Or even just move it so it's a newline on top of the illusion instead of on the bottom:

Your eye immediately notices the flaws in what is obviously an illusion:
Shamarah points his staff at you, and electricity crackles across its length before it discharges a bolt of blue lightning that slams into you in an explosion of cobalt sparks.

Or, just add prompts between stratagem'd actions.

I mean come on guys, let's be serious here, there is no reason stratagems should work this way.

Moving it to just before the detected illusion makes a lot of sense.

Sidd:


Look, any illusion that was screwed over by an affmessage, wasn't an illusion worth doing in the first place, simple coding will get around any of those. Stop using an example that isn't actually true for your basis of this argument.

So coding around affmessages is no trouble at all, but coding around stratagems is? And I don't see how this is not true, on my current system, very few illusions bother me. Stuff that works on m&m users does not work on me. It's just that no one seems to have realized how much easier their anti-illusioning would be using affmessages. And once they do, illusionists will have to spend power on two line illusions for some things.

Lilia:

So coding around affmessages is no trouble at all, but coding around stratagems is? And I don't see how this is not true, on my current system, very few illusions bother me. Stuff that works on m&m users does not work on me. It's just that no one seems to have realized how much easier their anti-illusioning would be using affmessages. And once they do, illusionists will have to spend power on two line illusions for some things.

Yes, coding around using the illusion that was brought up this issue, is much more intense than any coding for affmessages.
(with affmessages, you are talking about one affliction per affmessage, easy to check for, with the illusion line, that can be used at any time so you have to make checks for every situation that comes up, you really want to argue that coding for such circumstances is just as easy as coding for one illusion that an affmessage screwed up?)


Any illusion that works against m&m works because 1) they don't have anti-illusion on (I had it off earlier today and fell for a bunch of writhe illusions, my fault, not the systems) or 2) hasn't been used to the extent that it's been added to the system, which as far as I can tell, there aren't any of those out there, the last ones were Shedrin's writhe illusions which are now accounted for. If anyone else is falling for them, blame it on user error, not the system.

*ILLUSION*: Shamarah points his staff at you, and electricity crackles across its length before it discharges a bolt of blue lightning that slams into you.

Straight to the point?

Lilia:

And I don't see how this is not true, on my current system, very few illusions bother me. Stuff that works on m&m users does not work on me.

That actually means nothing. Illusion detection can be done any number of ways, and just because one system can pick up an illusion where another does not is wholly immaterial.

As for m&m users falling for these illusions like you claim, I would hazard a guess and state either a. They do not have anti-illusion enabled or b. Their system is either misconfigured or not configured at all.

Also, having no system is the best defence against illusions! :P
(Or a system that relies on affmessage and spams diag, I guess.)

I am now a fan of both Rivius' and Enyalida's solutions.

Yeah. Rivius' gets my vote. Most simplest and to the point of instantly fixing this.

Draylor:


That actually means nothing. Illusion detection can be done any number of ways, and just because one system can pick up an illusion where another does not is wholly immaterial.

As for m&m users falling for these illusions like you claim, I would hazard a guess and state either a. They do not have anti-illusion enabled or b. Their system is either misconfigured or not configured at all.

Also, having no system is the best defence against illusions! :P
(Or a system that relies on affmessage and spams diag, I guess.)

I'm not talking about picking up illusions. Medic! has no anti-illusion at all. It's simply not affected by (most of) them. I wasn't calling out m&m specifically, just using it as an example since it's one of the more popular systems. My statement holds true for any system that doesn't use affmessages at all. Your parenthetical comment is my entire point. Relying on affmessages means I really don't care about illusions, at least as they're used today. There's a few ways you could mess me up, but no one has tried it yet. That's supposed to be part of the ebb and flow of combat, as people come up with new strategies, you have to come up with ways to fight against them. I've already thought of a way to account for the supposedly OP illusion Morbo used, that doesn't involve seconding guessing the detection line. And remember, only things that don't use eq can be paired with illusions in this way.

Basically, I see this whole uproar and calls for change as further escalation of recent decisions that have decreased the potential effectiveness of illusions, whether that's what was intended or not. I don't think a major change is needed because someone came up with a new way to use illusions, especially since its possible uses are so few.

Yes, the fact that affmessages and autocuring are starting affect combat more is already being discussed in Iosai's thread about autocuring. That system as well is outside going out of it's boundary for what was intended to happen.

Yes, this uproar is justified because it pretty much nullifies the point of the Discernment Illusions skill. If you can't trust it anymore, it's not good for anything anymore. Stratagem was not intended to have such an effect when it came out.

Slime/Soulless/Fakeillusion go!

Morbo:

Shuyin, That's like saying Reality should have a line that says "Use this over and over in enemy godrealms to enter their temple" It's just an extension of how the skill works

This is the most bunk statement in the world. Stratagems were added so that combat could be made easier for people to get into - not buff illusionists. Frankly, I expected a lot better of you.

Irrelevant of whether or not illusionists are suffering from easing-in mechanics and whether or not they may need buffs, abusing mechanics like this and then offering red herring examples is pretty cruddy. I'm certain if First Aid started curing rubies or not using herbs, you wouldn't call it 'just an extension of how the skill works'. I'd like to think we're all fairly mature, particularly for a former envoy, and recognize when something is simply outright abusive and definitely not what it should be.

Lilia:

I wasn't calling out m&m specifically.

Stuff that works on m&m users does not work on me.

I've already thought of a way to account for the supposedly OP illusion Morbo used.

I don't recall anybody in this thread saying it was "OP" at all. It's not even close to being such. It was bug abuse, plain and simple. Most of us coded a way to account for it within minutes of him using it, but that is besides the point and wholly immaterial with regards the intent of this thread.

I can't believe this has taken so many posts to discuss. Putting that prompt between stratagems seems to me the only way to go. It not only fixes this illusion mess, but it helps systems keep track of balance/equilibrium correctly again.

Zarquan:

I can't believe this has taken so many posts to discuss. Putting that prompt between stratagems seems to me the only way to go. It not only fixes this illusion mess, but it helps systems keep track of balance/equilibrium correctly again.

I said that a dozen or more posts back :P

I know, right? So, what's with all the rest of the posts?

Zarquan:

I know, right? So, what's with all the rest of the posts?

Morbo and Lilia, mostly!

Xenthos:

I like that idea a lot, actually.

Enough that I will throw it a Like.

Edit: Though thinking about it, that would affect use of illusions in, say, rituals. It'd be better if it appended that text string in front of the illusion line (but on the same line).

Example: Your trained eye notes the flaws in what is obviously an illusion: *ILLUSION HAPPENS HERE*.

Actually, putting the illusion line before the illusion would work, because then they wouldn't be able to illusion then afflict.

Arix:

I thought mages could choose to see their own illusions? I'm pretty sure I used to be able to toggle it so I could check them for accuracy

You cannot see basic illusions, but can opt out of seeing improved illusions.

question, I haven't read all the posts here, but it seems to me like the easiest way to solve this problem is to have a CONFIG option, which puts a color to illusions that are detected as being faked.

This doesn't change any skills, and it makes it easy to code around, without anything ground breaking...

Why has this suggestion not been suggested, or suggested and rejected?

For one simple reason, you can colour your illusions here. Might want to do your homework before commenting, heh.