Sojiro:

OH GOD IT'S STARTED.

See what you've unleashed Xenthos.

Good lord, now we're just missing the merian/tae'dae crowd and we'll have a good old fashioned race party.

Me? You brought in 'racial balance' into this thread! I just pushed it forward to the logical next step. :P

The moment one begins to use races as the reason to modify / change something, you need to look at what impact that actually has on those races. Especially ones that already are lackluster to begin with (Shadowlord).

That's the only point I'm getting at; I am happy to argue for racial buffs / fixes if we're going to make it about race!

Edit: Sidd is complaining about my word choice of 'lackluster'-- perhaps I am overstating it a bit, but really. It can be fixed by putting back the strength point that was taken away. Grumble, grumble.

wtb con as merian(I'd have to go merian first, but one step at a time!)

Mer, if you don't think they aren't all connected you are just being pretentious.

Health bonuses and +con stats are easier to come by then +Int/+Cha bonuses, so forever high con/super low int or super low cha races (or both) will be at a disadvantage.

Not one thing is going to fix the perceived problem that many have.

Eventru:

You're very welcome to argue the point (or your envoy argue it) until blue in the face - I'm merely pointing out that every instance of 'PvE only attacks' or 'PvE only defenses' that have come up (and there's been a lot lately) have systematically been shot down every single time. Maybe next time will be a charm - it's your/your envoy's once a month report slot to use, not mine.

Huh? There are multiple skills already in the game that do this. Reflection, beast bodyguard, beast aggressive (for breaking shields), divine fire, probably more that I'm forgetting. Not to mention the number of skills that are technically usable against other players but are useless by design outside of bashing (e.g. symbol strike).

Edit: Not to mention the entire skillset that only works on mobs - Influence!

Double edit: Oh, and a quick search of Xiel's wiki reveals that there is even a case of mob-only DMP: acrobatics dodging. (Possibly due to technical limitations.)

I can't say I'm not disappointed that the (to me) least civil comments on this thread come from Eventru, including a threat to lock it. I recall occasions where discussions on the forums were encouraged instead of telling players to just have envoys take care of it.

As for the race question: Damage boni from high stats and racial speed boni (one or both are usually the boon of being a low con race) are relative (a percentage, not a fixed amount), so the throne doesn't really benefit high con races more than low con ones. It keeps the ratio between damage dealt and damage you can tank about the same, although damage scaling probably slants that a bit one way or the other. However, a con bonus benefits low con races more since they gain a higher percentage of hps from it than high con races do.

Shamarah's right, let Acrobats straight up dodge denizen attacks instead of dmp, I want to stack it with IllusorySelf, Bodyguard, and Rune of Absorption. Also, buff Furrikin.

If the Throne blessing is an issue, why not just change it so only the person who completes the quest gets the blessing?

I'm not even sure the Throne blessing is an issue, since anyone can do it. It's not even dependent on having active gods (like truefavours).

I'm not even sure why the Throne had to be brought up, to be honest. Seems just like an awful lot of nerf x, nerf y and nerf z to me; for no apparent reason.

Draylor:

I'm not even sure why the Throne had to be brought up, to be honest. Seems just like an awful lot of nerf x, nerf y and nerf z to me; for no apparent reason.

Nerf examining your zippers!

Veyrzhul:

I can't say I'm not disappointed that the (to me) least civil comments on this thread come from Eventru, including a threat to lock it. I recall occasions where discussions on the forums were encouraged instead of telling players to just have envoys take care of it.

The moment the conversation shifts from a question of balance ("Favours are too good") to the complaint of the behaviour of gods (ie "Favours are too good because I don't get 3 of them like soandso does!", "Zvoltz gives everyone who offers to him favours just for offering!", "Raezon NEVER gives us favours because he HATES his own city!", "Eventru gives ANY Celestian who just ASKS a favour!"), it falls way far afield and I will quickly shut it down. Those sorts of decisions belong solely in the hands of said gods, and I won't let them be lambasted (or perceive being lambasted) because someone feels the metaphorical grass is greener.

And there've been several posts that leaned fairly heavily in that direction.

To be honest, Eventru, even if it is insulting to you or the other gods it still is a game balance concern, and it is frustrating for players who, by virtue of lack of active gods, or by stingy gods in their org, are weakened fairly substantially.

I understand that gods are free to favour however they wish, but the fact that there is such great pressure on them to give out truefavours is a problem; it means that a substantial buff is concentrated unevenly. The solutions are to either 1) Add a method of getting a truefavor-like buff, that does not stack with truefavors, and does not require a god, or 2) Reduce the effect of Truefavours so that they are no longer a game balance concern.

foolofsound:

To be honest, Eventru, even if it is insulting to you or the other gods it still is a game balance concern, and it is frustrating for players who, by virtue of lack of active gods, or by stingy gods in their org, are weakened fairly substantially.

You're welcome to disagree with me! However, as has always been the case, when the matter drifts into picking at how certain gods act/perform/hand out favours/etc, warnings are issued and if it continues, the thread gets locked down. If you have issues with how individual gods behave, Support is your venue, not forum threads. It hasn't gone near the topic in a while, so I'm not particularly concerned at the moment, merely pointing out the reason for the perceived threat.

People are welcome to offer to any god they so desire. If people are feeling that they are "hard done-by" then feel free to exercise this option. I personally do not feel there is an issue at all and a complete non-issue is being batted back and forth.

Sure, favours can be pretty powerful, but they are hardly the deciding factor that some are making them out to be.

Eventru:

Eventru gives ANY Celestian who just ASKS a favour

This is new to me!

Draylor:

Sure, favours can be pretty powerful, but they are hardly the deciding factor that some are making them out to be.

I don't think that you can possibly argue that +1 to all stats (+2 to con) and 15% damage reduction is anything but substantial, and certainly a game balance concern.

Draylor:

People are welcome to offer to any god they so desire. If people are feeling that they are "hard done-by" then feel free to exercise this option. I personally do not feel there is an issue at all and a complete non-issue is being batted back and forth.

Sure, favours can be pretty powerful, but they are hardly the deciding factor that some are making them out to be.

Not everyone can reasonably offer to any God, nor should people offer to a God for the sole reason that They're known to hand out favours more often.

I also don't quite understand how you can complain about low hps without a throne blessing and now suddenly say a tf hardly matters when a tf adds more to tankiness than a throne blessing.

The truth is, people easily get spoilt by both buffs and then suddenly don't wanna do anything without them. Which is partly understandable if you assume the opposite side might have them, since that creates a huge gap in survivability. I'd personally want such a gap to result solely or almost solely from the choice of race and guild (inevitibly, artifacts will factor in to some extent, as well).

That's why, instead of asking for favours to be handed out one way or the other, I'd rather have the resulting buff nerfed some, two good suggestions were brought up above (turn the damage reduction into dmp or make it mob-only). Same for the throne blessing: Reduce to ~5% and it's fine. And since it's been brought up: I wouldn't even mind if the life runes got nerfed some. Maybe to 3/6/9% or 5/7/9% instead of 5/10/15%. I got a level 3, myself.

I want to like the above post, except for the nerfing of the runes. :P

Draylor, as someone who is in the "favored" organization, I understand how you might feel that way.

Eventru, I have contacted support about these matters in the past, and the response was a simple, "We disagree."

foolofsound:

and 15% damage reduction is anything but substantial, and certainly a game balance concern.

Draylor:

Sure, favours can be pretty powerful.

I would have hoped the above quote was plenty to affirm your own statement.

Veyrzhul:

Not everyone can reasonably offer to any God, nor should people offer to a God for the sole reason that They're known to hand out favours more often.

I also don't quite understand how you can complain about low hps without a throne blessing and now suddenly say a tf hardly matters when a tf adds more to tankiness than a throne blessing.

Again, if I was underplaying TF's, that was certainly not my intent. The way I see it is that they are hardly a permanent thing a person can have, where the Throne blessing is.

Overall, I have absolutely no problem at all with nerfing TF's. Quite the contrary, in fact. I actually wholly support it, as evidenced by a "liked" post a couple of pages back where it was suggested the DMP should only be afforded in a PvE setting.

The issue I am having however, is how the Throne was brought into the equation on a thread about Truefavours. I stand by my stance that the Throne blessing is fine as it is and is certainly not warranting of any revision with regards to the bonus it provides.

If a certain blessing is farmed everyday to the point that it becomes both a chore and some sort of obligation, then perhaps the blessing should be looked at.

If a certain blessing is so good that people will actually ask, "Is the throne up" before doing anything else, then perhaps the blessing should be looked at.

If a certain blessing is actively farmed by both -sides- of the game, every day and during periods of heavy activity, every hour, then perhaps the blessing should be looked at.

And so on.