I know for a fact that Tosha is lower than the throne. I made the mistake of trying to stack Tosha on top of the throne, but it replaced it and lowered my h/m/e.

Shamarah:

I don't understand why the throne is even usable by people who didn't do the quest. Why not just bring it into parity with Tosha (which is also +20% h/m/e) and make it only work for the person who actually did the work to raise it? (I have no idea how difficult the quest is, I've never done it, so if it's more difficult than Tosha maybe it could be made to last longer or something.)

The Throne quest requires that you kill a small pile of undead cavefishers (on the order of 30 or so, iirc), which team and hit like astral mobs. Once that's done, you have to run around doing a "find the items hidden in the room descriptions" thing and a pair of puzzles, one that's quite difficult (a talthos or shanthmark-esque "figure out who goes in what room with what items" puzzle) and one that's not so hard (a "light up all the squares" puzzle). The bashing requirement basically means that it's only doable by level 90+ characters solo, while the first puzzle is the major time sink in doing the quest. Sometimes you'll get demigods who go and kill all the fishers and then have some lower level person do the puzzles for them.

The Tosha blessing is less than the blessing from the throne.

Sojiro:

If a certain blessing is so good that people will actually ask, "Is the throne up" before doing anything else, then perhaps the blessing should be looked at.

Throne buff makes me feel really tanky when stacked along with Inspire, staff twirl and such. I like feeling really tanky, even if it's a lie.

As a magnagoran with a tanky spec race and as a member of a guild that if aff heavy with virtually no burst damage and would therefore favor a more tanky race I've almost always played races on the tanky end.

I can say with all certainty that more fragile races being able to get the levels of health of tanky races while tanky races not being able to boost their damage to that of the more fragile races is an imbalance.

It looks like they are balanced coming out the box but in practice fragile races give up very little, if anything to have their damage bonuses.

If something is going to kill you at 8k health then 10k health probably won't make much difference.

Going from 6k health to 8k health would be a much greater benefit in terms of survivability.

You get to do the atomic level damage without worring about having to be cautions because of your low health which should be the balancing component of the extra damage.

Llandros:

As a magnagoran with a tanky spec race and as a member of a guild that if aff heavy with virtually no burst damage and would therefore favor a more tanky race I've almost always played races on the tanky end.

I can say with all certainty that more fragile races being able to get the levels of health of tanky races while tanky races not being able to boost their damage to that of the more fragile races is an imbalance.

It looks like they are balanced coming out the box but in practice fragile races give up very little, if anything to have their damage bonuses.

If something is going to kill you at 8k health then 10k health probably won't make much difference.

Going from 6k health to 8k health would be a much greater benefit in terms of survivability.

You get to do the atomic level damage without worring about having to be cautions because of your low health which should be the balancing component of the extra damage.

The problem with this statement is this.

Even as a buffed up shadowsinger faeling, with throne blessing/TF/life rune/kirigami/affinity/attune/eco charm etc. I'm still not anywhere close to as tanky as I was as a warrior with basic defs. I'm not even nearly as tanky as I was playing a druid. I just plain don't buy this argument that it's easy to offset squishiness that the karma life blessing report tried to make it out to be

At most, I have 6.8k health and that's if I keep platter AND yellow up with tarantula bond. I had 8k health as a warrior unsurged.

Tanky races STILL have the advantage of being tankier, and don't even bring up the mana/ego kills because damage doesn't have a cap where as most mana/ego attack do.

Sidd:


The problem with this statement is this.

Even as a buffed up shadowsinger faeling, with throne blessing/TF/life rune/kirigami/affinity/attune/eco charm etc. I'm still not anywhere close to as tanky as I was as a warrior with basic defs. I'm not even nearly as tanky as I was playing a druid. I just plain don't buy this argument that it's easy to offset squishiness that the karma life blessing report tried to make it out to be

At most, I have 6.8k health and that's if I keep platter AND yellow up with tarantula bond. I had 8k health as a warrior unsurged.

Tanky races STILL have the advantage of being tankier, and don't even bring up the mana/ego kills because damage doesn't have a cap where as most mana/ego attack do.

The problem with this is the hilarious notion that a faeling bard is in the same arena as a warrior in tankyness.

As a brewmeister bard i have 6.9k health and hit for a fraction of the damage you do, not to mention an eq penalty.

So
You can buff your health up to my levels. This also buffs your healing since many of them are % based.

There is nothing that I can do to make up the difference in damage like you can in health.

But no, you are right this sounds perfectly fair. I have resistances that you don't. What's that? I only have extra resitances to some things and not a blanket damage reduction?

Your high INT and CHA surely only boost a small range of your attacks as well, right? What's that? They boost all attacks regardless of damage type?

Well that just plain old doesn't sound fair to me.

It doesn't sound fair; it also doesn't sound right. I would speculate you're not stacking the same buffs.

Or you're also a Faeling.

that's my unbuffed health

Raising your health above not being taken out by just a couple damage attacks is of mixed benefit.

If you lock somone down and hammer them till they explode or trap them into an insta or behead them or starve them or sleep them or or rape their endurance/willpowerone or one of the billion or so other ways to kill people then having an extra 1 or 2k health above that won't make any difference.

If you run the risk of getting taken out early in the fight then you have to play defense a little more and be cautious then that is a fantastic reason to give somone damage boosts. That's also not the case.

What caused the thread to be resurrected?

You know that would be my fault. Sorry about that.

Carry on.

Did you seriously try to say that my maxed out buff health, which is still lower than your unbuffed health, isn't fair because you decide to not buff it up? I really hope you see the hypocrisy of your statement. It pretty much boils down to this. Not only did yo,u prove my point, that despite maxing my health, you still are tankier, you can get the same buffs making you even more tanky. Your group kill point just neutered your entire backing because you just said an extra ,1-2 k doesn't make a difference, so why does my ability to buff it matter and yours doesn't? Sorry for punctuation, on my phone.

Sidd:

Did you seriously try to say that my maxed out buff health, which is still lower than your unbuffed health, isn't fair because you decide to not buff it up? I really hope you see the hypocrisy of your statement. It pretty much boils down to this. Not only did yo,u prove my point, that despite maxing my health, you still are tankier, you can get the same buffs making you even more tanky. Your group kill point just neutered your entire backing because you just said an extra ,1-2 k doesn't make a difference, so why does my ability to buff it matter and yours doesn't? Sorry for punctuation, on my phone.

I think you misunderstood.

After you get to a level where you can survive being two shotted by a couple strong attacks then additional boosts in health mean much less.

Having 4k health is a big liabilty having 6k health, not so much.

Any situation I got into where 7k health was not enough to survive then odds are 9k health wouldn't change that.

The value of the extra health is not linear.

So lets say that if instead of extra health, i wanted to use my karma and recourses boost my damage with various abilities. There are far fewer ways to do that then there are to boost health to viable levels. Not to mention the extra damage boosts are all available to the squishy races.

In my opinon that's shady.

Llandros:


I think you misunderstood.

After you get to a level where you can survive being two shotted by a couple strong attacks then additional boosts in health mean much less.

Having 4k health is a big liabilty having 6k health, not so much.

Any situation I got into where 7k health was not enough to survive then odds are 9k health wouldn't change that.

The value of the extra health is not linear.

So lets say that if instead of extra health, i wanted to use my karma and recourses boost my damage with various abilities. There are far fewer ways to do that then there are to boost health to viable levels. Not to mention the extra damage boosts are all available to the squishy races.

In my opinon that's shady.

I disagree. Are you really trying to say that there isn't much difference between 7k and 9k health considering one of mags favorite strategies is omen/damage kills? Fact is, majority of people in group fights die to damage and yes, 6k and 9k is a huge difference. in any situation where 9k certainly didn't matter, my maxed out 6.8k most certainly doesn't matter

Sidd:

I disagree. Are you really trying to say that there isn't much difference between 7k and 9k health considering one of mags favorite strategies is omen/damage kills? Fact is, majority of people in group fights die to damage and yes, 6k and 9k is a huge difference. in any situation where 9k certainly didn't matter, my maxed out 6.8k most certainly doesn't matter

I'm really trying to say the difference between 4k and 6k is more significant than the difference between 7k and 9k.

And are you really using omen/damage kills as an example? If we have to use a skill like omen just to damage kill a faeling then you have made my point for me.

Llandros:

I'm really trying to say the difference between 4k and 6k is more significant than the difference between 7k and 9k.

It's hardly what I would call "significant" heh. Most attacks scale to max health which makes your point kind of moot.

I didn't say that at all, I pointed out a common tactic. What I did point out is the fact that you are trying to say more health doesn't benefit you which is undoubtedly false. Why do you think Munsia spams her staff attack? Damage kills work and that means more health benefits you. I don't see why that is hard to understand. I don't agree there is a bigger difference between lower health levels and upper ones.I think that is how things were meant to be and the disparity isn't as great as you are making it out to be. That, to me, is the shady thing. people changeling to viscanti or dracnari for a reason, because they can't achieve the same tanking level by a long shot

Draylor:


It's hardly what I would call "significant" heh. Most attacks scale to max health which makes your point kind of moot.

OK, the very moment I see you running around fighting with just 4k health then I will believe you.

Sidd:

I didn't say that at all, I pointed out a common tactic. What I did point out is the fact that you are trying to say more health doesn't benefit you which is undoubtedly false. Why do you think Munsia spams her staff attack? Damage kills work and that means more health benefits you. I don't see why that is hard to understand. I don't agree there is a bigger difference between lower health levels and upper ones.I think that is how things were meant to be and the disparity isn't as great as you are making it out to be. That, to me, is the shady thing. people changeling to viscanti or dracnari for a reason, because they can't achieve the same tanking level by a long shot

Yes, yes, yes, I’m sure lots of people changeling into viscanti or dracnari right before they try to damage kill someone.

I’ve said what I have to say, like 5 times now. So I’ll just agree to disagree.

Llandros:

Yes, yes, yes, I’m sure lots of people changeling into viscanti or dracnari right before they try to damage kill someone.

I’ve said what I have to say, like 5 times now. So I’ll just agree to disagree.

I didn't say that? I said they change into viscanti/dracnari to tank better? Because that's something they are better at, which has been my point the entire time?

Races designed to be tankier races, are just that tankier. Squishy races that do more damage can't easily offset the health malus that comes along with it. As you've shown, my faeling health close to maxed out, doesn't surpass your unbuffed health as a tanky race.